Regards,
Alfre
\start
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 11:30:20 0400
From: Alfredo Portes
To: "William Stein" William Stein
+To: William Stein
boundary="=_Part_46230_12379631.1158334220349"
diff git a/book/200707.txt b/book/200707.txt
index 3fec799..f63f79a 100644
 a/book/200707.txt
+++ b/book/200707.txt
@@ 15505,7 +15505,7 @@ Subject: FriCAS mailing list
There is now a Google group (mailing list):
fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+
It is intended that all FriCAS specific discussion should take
place on the fricasdevel list.
@@ 23254,7 +23254,7 @@ From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: Camm Maguire
Subject: Re: [Gcldevel] Re: Gcl2.6.8 on Intel Solaris 10
<54y7hkvv69.fsf@intech19.enhanced.com>
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
+Cc: list, ,
gcldevel@gnu.org
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007, Camm Maguire wrote:
diff git a/book/200709.txt b/book/200709.txt
index 67aafa5..7131fb3 100644
 a/book/200709.txt
+++ b/book/200709.txt
@@ 2581,7 +2581,7 @@ APL2, would that satisfy some or all of your concerns?
\start
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:18:59 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+To:
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: APL2 is evil [was: Re:
Cc: Stephen Watt, Christian Aistleitner, Bill Page
diff git a/book/200710.txt b/book/200710.txt
index 161a825..26e06bf 100644
 a/book/200710.txt
+++ b/book/200710.txt
@@ 1,22 +1,7 @@
\start
To: Tim Daly
 <9qfy0zmhol.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200709280646.l8S6kZU30652@localhost.localdomain>
 <9q641ty4k7.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200709291543.l8TFhXk31748@localhost.localdomain>
 <9q641ta24s.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200709291647.l8TGlJB31812@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qmyv55s3q.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200709291710.l8THABB31834@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qve9tpdgo.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200709292332.l8TNWos31904@localhost.localdomain>
 <9q3awx2c24.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200709300232.l8U2WO131964@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qd4w0ljho.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200709302340.l8UNeVP07393@localhost.localdomain>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 01 Oct 2007 08:12:14 +0200
Cc: list, axiommath@nongnu.org
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Tim Daly
Subject: Re: pfaffian.input.pamphlet
Tim Daly writes:
@@ 35,19 +20,10 @@ Tim Daly writes:
I didn't check for odd n since I didn't check for skewsymmetry either. Yes,
one should, in a production environment.
Martin




\start
To: Alasdair McAndrew, William Sit,
 Bill Page
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 01 Oct 2007 09:58:55 +0200
Cc: axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 fricasdevel
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Alasdair McAndrew, William Sit, Bill Page
Subject: emacs mode
After a few more modifications, axiom.el now also works without X. Could you
@@ 75,22 +51,11 @@ but I do not know whether this is available under MS Windows, too.
Finally, I'd really really really like to have some feedback. Am I the only
user of this emacs mode? If so, why?
Martin





\start
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 05:38:34 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs
 Sep 2007 20:37:45 0700)
Subject: Re: End Of File
 <470068B3.1080108@shaw.ca>
 <200710010331.l913ViY07447@localhost.localdomain>
 <47006B89.6080400@shaw.ca>
Cc: list
>> Are you able to read from a socket?
>I don't understand. Isn't this what we're doing in axserver?
@@ 99,22 +64,11 @@ yes, but while i'm able to connect to the socket i'm unable to
read any data from the socket. i always get "" which causes an
infinite loop.
Tim



\start
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 08:51:54 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: End Of File
To: Tim Daly
Messageid: <4701179A.3020009@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <470068B3.1080108@shaw.ca>
 <200710010331.l913ViY07447@localhost.localdomain>
 <47006B89.6080400@shaw.ca>
 <200710010938.l919cYq07840@localhost.localdomain>
Cc: list
+Subject: Re: End Of File
root wrote:
>>> Are you able to read from a socket?
@@ 134,16 +88,10 @@ doesn't work for you? I find it's quite snappy now, especially if
READ_CHAR_NO_HANG is replaced with READ_LINE for
GETting files
Arthur



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 02:13:58 0500
To: Alfredo Portes,
 Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Alfredo Portes, Arthur Ralfs
Subject: newhyper.pamphlet
Alfredo, Arthur,
@@ 192,20 +140,10 @@ I know I can do it but it's been a while and you've looked at it recently.
It could possibly take a nondefault port such as
)browser 7000
Tim



\start
To: fricasdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 axiomdevel
 <9qtzpczzny.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <9qhclcljmm.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <9q641pen7e.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 02 Oct 2007 14:07:12 +0200
Cc:
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
Subject: Re: [ANN] new version of axiom mode for emacs.
Martin Rubey writes:
@@ 217,16 +155,10 @@ Martin Rubey writes:
Just realised that axiom in fact provides a command )undo, as well as redo. It
remains to check how I can combine this suitably with emacs' undo facility...
Martin




\start
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:28:07 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: raw sockets on XP
I've been looking into the raw socket programming issue for gcl and found:
@@ 286,17 +218,11 @@ disabled. Quick summary from Microsoft's specification
sockets. The IP source address for any outgoing UDP datagram must
exist on a network interface or the datagram is dropped.




\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 03 Oct 2007 08:14:00 +0200
Cc:
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: emacs mode
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Re: emacs mode
Waldek Hebisch writes:
@@ 319,19 +245,11 @@ and
to get useful behaviour, that might also be closer to what some MMA and Maple
users expect.
Martin




\start
+Date: 03 Oct 2007 10:19:47 +0200
+From: Martin Rubey
To: Francois Maltey
Subject: Re: emacs mode
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 03 Oct 2007 10:19:47 +0200
Cc: axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 fricasdevel
(I hope I do not offend you by forwarding this to the lists)
@@ 352,16 +270,10 @@ it might break something...
use nullity.
Martin




\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 16:46:35 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071003.01.tpd.patch
This patch adds lisp code and spad code to support a browserbased
@@ 824,15 +736,12 @@ index 0000000..9db87f8
+(defun SiCopyStream (q s) (si::copystream q s))
+


\start
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 22:14:18 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Camm Maguire
Cc: list, "C. Frangos" Constantine Frangos
Subject: [Constantine Frangos: Re: Installing axiom on
 suse linux 10.2]
+Subject: [Constantine Frangos: Re: Installing axiom on suse linux 10.2]
+Cc: Constantine Frangos
Camm,
@@ 844,12 +753,6 @@ for the .h files. Do you have any insight into this?
Tim
 Start of forwarded message 
 charset="CP 1253"
From: "C. Frangos" Constantine Frangos
To: Tim Daly
Subject: Re: Installing axiom on suse linux 10.2
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 23:00:10 +0200

I tried the instructions and it seems that the )sys command is
working.
@@ 911,38 +814,25 @@ C. Frangos.
>> the problem is that gcc cannot be found. If the file is
>> not erased then the system function is not working and
>> we have to get Camm (the GCL maintainer) involved.
>>
>> Tim
 End of forwarded message 


\start
From: C. Frangos Constantine Frangos
To: list
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 13:04:32 +0200
Cc: axiommath@nongnu.org
+From: Constantine Frangos
+To: list
Subject: Axiom: Matrix manipulations


I have tried to read in the file test.input pasted below. However,=20
+I have tried to read in the file test.input pasted below. However,
I am getting continuously error messages re. the matrix Acon, and have be=
en=20
+en
unable to make progress.
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Thanks very much.

C. Frangos.


file test.input
)read expandsincos.input
Acon :=3D matrix([[1 , 0 , Lo1*sin(phi) , sin(phi)*a , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0=
+Acon := matrix([[1 , 0 , Lo1*sin(phi) , sin(phi)*a , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0=
],_
[0 , 1 , Lo1*cos(phi) , a*cos(phi) , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0],_
[1 , 0 , Lo1*sin(phi) , 0 , a*sin(phi), 0 , 0 , 0 , 0],
@@ 950,11 +840,11 @@ Acon :=3D matrix([[1 , 0 , Lo1*sin(phi) , sin(phi)*a , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0=
[1,0,Lc*cos(phi)+Lo1*sin(phi),0,0,0,a*sin(phi)*cos(delta3)_
a*cos(phi)*sin(delta3),0,0],_
[0,1,Lc*sin(phi)Lo1*cos(phi),0,0,0,a*cos(phi)*cos(delta3)_
a*sin(phi)*sin(delta3),0,0],_=20
+a*sin(phi)*sin(delta3),0,0],_
[1,Lc*cos(phi)Lo1*sin(phi),0,0,(2*sin(phi)*Lo1*sin(delta3)sin(phi)*_
Lc*cos(delta3)cos(phi)*Lc*sin(delta3))*a/sqrt(4*Lo1^2*sin(delta3)^2+_
4*Lo1*sin(delta3)*Lc*cos(delta3)+Lc^2*cos(delta3)^2+Lc^2*sin(delta3)^2),0=
,0,0],_=20
+,0,0],_
[0,1,Lc*sin(phi)+Lo1*cos(phi),0,0,a*(2*cos(phi)*Lo1*sin(delta3)+_
cos(phi)*Lc*cos(delta3)sin(phi)*Lc*sin(delta3))/sqrt(4*Lo1^2*sin(delta3)=
^2+_
@@ 962,28 +852,23 @@ cos(phi)*Lc*cos(delta3)sin(phi)*Lc*sin(delta3))/sqrt(4*Lo1^2*sin(delta3)=
,0,0],_
[0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , 1 , 1 , 0 , k]])
rankAcon :=3D rank(Acon)
+rankAcon := rank(Acon)
nullityAcon :=3D nullity(Acon)
+nullityAcon := nullity(Acon)
Aconre :=3D rowEchelon(Acon)
+Aconre := rowEchelon(Acon)
Aconnull :=3D nullSpace(Acon)
+Aconnull := nullSpace(Acon)
end of file.




\start
Subject: Re: [Constantine Frangos: Re: Installing axiom on
 suse linux 10.2]
To: Tim Daly
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:33:41 +0200 (CEST)
From: Waldek Hebisch
Cc: list, "C. Frangos" Constantine Frangos
+To: Tim Daly
+Subject: Re: [Constantine Frangos: Re: Installing axiom on suse linux 10.2]
+Cc: Constantine Frangos
> Camm,
>
@@ 1008,20 +893,12 @@ In whsandbox I worked around the problem by making sure that for
user compiler::*defaultsystemp* is set to nil (it _must_ be set
to t during build).

 Waldek Hebisch
Waldek Hebisch



\start
To: Tim Daly
From: Camm Maguire
Date: 04 Oct 2007 08:52:46 0400
Cc: list, "C. Frangos" Constantine Frangos,
 gcldevel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [Constantine Frangos: Re: Installing axiom
 on suse linux 10.2]
+From: Camm Maguire
+To: Tim Daly
+Subject: Re: [Constantine Frangos: Re: Installing axiom on suse linux 10.2]
+Cc: Constantine Frangos
Greetings!
@@ 1146,26 +1023,11 @@ Tim Daly writes:
> >> the problem is that gcc cannot be found. If the file is
> >> not erased then the system function is not working and
> >> we have to get Camm (the GCL maintainer) involved.
> >>
> >> Tim
> 
>
>
>
>


Camm Maguire Camm Maguire
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  Baha'u'llah


\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:12:20 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071004.01.tpd.patch
This patch adds regression testing of Axiom's ordinary differential
@@ 3127,13 +2989,10 @@ index 0000000..d1a9d8b
+\end{thebibliography}
+\end{document}


\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 16:19:05 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071004.02.tpd.patch
This patch adds the next 50 Kamke ordinary differential equations in
@@ 5312,14 +5171,11 @@ index 0000000..2b5237a
+\end{thebibliography}
+\end{document}


\start
Subject: Re: Axiom: Matrix manipulations
To: Constantine Frangos
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 00:35:45 +0200 (CEST)
From: Waldek Hebisch
Cc: list, axiommath@nongnu.org
+To: Constantine Frangos
+Subject: Re: Axiom: Matrix manipulations
C. Frangos wrote:
> I have tried to read in the file test.input pasted below. However,
@@ 5366,18 +5222,10 @@ After correcting the two problems above (I added leading 0 to
the short row) I get rank 8 and [[0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0]] as
nullSpace.


 Waldek Hebisch
Waldek Hebisch



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:21:37 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071005.01.tpd.patch
This patch adds Axiom regression tests of Kamke ODEs 101150
@@ 7159,13 +7007,10 @@ index 0000000..2c8be63
+\end{thebibliography}
+\end{document}


\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 02:23:32 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071005.02.tpd.patch
This patch adds Axiom regression tests of Kamke ODEs 151200
@@ 9900,13 +9745,10 @@ index 0000000..2d9ac94
+\end{thebibliography}
+\end{document}


\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 12:47:45 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071005.03.tpd.patch
This patch adds Axiom regression tests of Kamke ODE 201250
@@ 11419,13 +11261,10 @@ index 0000000..57e395d
+\end{document}
+


\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 18:06:45 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071005.04.tpd.patch
This patch adds Axiom regression tests of Kamke ODE 251300
@@ 13111,13 +12950,10 @@ index 0000000..34a8ee0
+\end{thebibliography}
+\end{document}


\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 01:06:19 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071006.01.tpd.patch
This patch adds Axiom regression tests of Kamke ODEs 301350
@@ 16830,13 +16666,10 @@ index 0000000..ad31cd3
+\end{thebibliography}
+\end{document}


\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:46:50 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071006.02.tpd.patch
This patch adds the remaining Kamke ODEs that give results in Axiom.
@@ 18427,20 +18260,12 @@ index 0000000..eb989d3
+\end{thebibliography}
+\end{document}


\start
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 07:03:11 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
To: Tim Daly
Messageid: <470CDB9F.2060409@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
Cc: list
Subject: axserver patches
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
040100020602050601060703

Tim,
These patches should make the versions of axserver.spad.pamphlet
@@ 18872,14 +18697,10 @@ Arthur
040100020602050601060703


\start
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:56:33 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs
 Oct 2007 07:03:11 0700)
Cc: list
Subject: Re: axserver patches
Arthur,
@@ 18888,17 +18709,10 @@ I applied your changes and the web service is much faster.
However, the browser no longer displays the results as mathml.
I can't imagine what's changed. The browser is exactly the same.
Tim



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:49:36 0500
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alasdair McAndrew
 Alfredo Portes
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alasdair McAndrew, Alfredo Portes
Subject: new hyperdoc changes  xhtml jenks book
Arthur,
@@ 19089,16 +18903,10 @@ bookcontents.xhtml
21.0 Programs for AXIOM Images
21.1 images1.input



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:51:37 0500
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alasdair McAndrew
 Alfredo Portes
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alasdair McAndrew, Alfredo Portes
Subject: new hyperdoc changes  Cryptographics Topic
Alasdair,
@@ 19107,17 +18915,10 @@ Your lab notes have been incorporated into the new hyperdoc under
the Topics page. They are trivial to modify if you want changes.
We can also trivially add new pages as you develop them.
Tim



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:58:24 0500
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alasdair McAndrew
 Alfredo Portes
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alasdair McAndrew, Alfredo Portes
Subject: new hyperdoc changes  axserver.spad
Arthur,
@@ 19133,17 +18934,10 @@ The output is much faster with the changes you've made.
The next patch release will contain the code you sent me with my
modification for contentType.
Tim



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:05:00 0500
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alasdair McAndrew
 Alfredo Portes
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alasdair McAndrew, Alfredo Portes
Subject: new hyperdoc changes  Axiom main line changes
Alfredo,
@@ 19160,16 +18954,12 @@ I'm about to make this "live" in the main line distribution as soon as
I finish fleshing out the old existing hyperdoc pages and figure out
how to hook it to the )hd command.
Tim



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 01:10:25 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc: Arthur Ralfs Arthur Ralfs
Subject: 20071013.01.acr.patch
+Cc: Arthur Ralfs
This patch allows faster browsing of new hyperdoc web pages
=========================================================================
@@ 19618,16 +19408,10 @@ index 9db87f8..6feb283 100644
(defvar NewLine '#\NewLine)



\start
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 11:01:40 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs
 Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:11:58 0700)
 <471223AE.6020704@mathbrane.ca>
Cc: list
Subject: Re: new hyperdoc changes  xhtml jenks book
>The original book.pamphlet chapter 20 lacked any content.
@@ 19697,19 +19481,10 @@ easier to use the same process so it has the same look and feel. I've
added a link to the new hyperdoc pages for it so it is certainly in
the queue of things to do.
Tim






\start
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 11:14:02 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs
 Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:11:58 0700)
Cc: list
Subject: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
On another subject...
@@ 19743,19 +19518,10 @@ mathml. Given that you're tightly wired into the mathml work
do you know of some reasonable editor where I can type an
equation or the latex for an equation and generate the mathml?
Tim




\start
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:11:58 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs Arthur Ralfs
+From: Arthur Ralfs
To: Tim Daly
Messageid: <471223AE.6020704@mathbrane.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 recognized.
Cc: list
Subject: Re: new hyperdoc changes  xhtml jenks book
Tim Daly wrote:
@@ 19798,16 +19564,10 @@ I can try running bookvol1.pamphlet through my emacs macros
and see what happens. In fact I've had this in mind after
the JenksSutor book but hadn't gotten around to it.
Arthur




\start
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:04:02 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs
Cc: list
+To: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: html > xhtml page rename fix
Arthur,
@@ 19819,16 +19579,12 @@ That change worked. Thanks.
I'm doing a rebuild/test cycle with the new change and it should be
pushed to silver by the end of the day.
Tim



\start
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:50:08 0700
From: Ed Borasky
To: Tim Daly
Subject: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
Cc: list, Arthur Ralfs
+Cc: Arthur Ralfs
root wrote:
> On another subject...
@@ 19889,29 +19645,20 @@ sample output. In any event, if you've got any reasonable Linux distro
you should be able to install TeXmacs from either the distro repository
or the upstream source and try it out.


\start
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:38:11 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Ed Borasky
Subject: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
 <47128F10.2080406@cesmail.net>
Cc: list, Arthur Ralfs
+Cc: Arthur Ralfs
Excellent. I'll download the latest TeXmacs and try it.  Tim


\start
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:58:20 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
To: Tim Daly
Messageid: <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 recognized.
Cc: list
+Subject: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
root wrote:
> On another subject...
@@ 19937,18 +19684,12 @@ that ideally the latex to mathml should either happen in Axiom
or in the browser. However that's a bit of a project. I haven't
used anything else myself.
Arthur



\start
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:01:41 0700
From: Ed Borasky
To: Tim Daly
Subject: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
 <47128F10.2080406@cesmail.net>
 <200710142238.l9EMcBa32436@localhost.localdomain>
Cc: list, Arthur Ralfs
+Cc: Arthur Ralfs
This is a multipart message in MIME format.
020206060908080404000606
@@ 20381,17 +20122,12 @@ ICA8L3RhYmxlPgogICAgICAgIDwvZGl2PgogICAgICA8L2Rpdj4KICAgIDwvcD4KICA8L2Jv
ZHk+CjwvaHRtbD4=
020206060908080404000606


\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:15:05 0500
From: Mike Hansen
To: Ed Borasky
Subject: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
 <47128F10.2080406@cesmail.net>
 <200710142238.l9EMcBa32436@localhost.localdomain>
 <47130245.9020703@cesmail.net>
Cc: list, Arthur Ralfs
+Cc: Arthur Ralfs
On a somewhat related note, you might also look into jsMath (
http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/ ) which is able to display
@@ 20399,17 +20135,11 @@ highquality typeset math in a web browser using LaTeX directly as
input. For example, see
http://www.math.union.edu/~dpvc/jsMath/examples/Struik.html
Mike



\start
+Date: 15 Oct 2007 08:35:13 +0200
+From: Martin Rubey
To: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 15 Oct 2007 08:35:13 +0200
Cc: list
Arthur Ralfs writes:
@@ 20428,14 +20158,9 @@ ps, pdf, html, mathml, jsmath, whatever tex4ht provides).
It has the slight disadvantage that it is necessary to have either a very fast
computer or to cache the results. I do the latter.
Martin




\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:57:13 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Subject: 20071014.01.acr.patch
@@ 20464,15 +20189,10 @@ index 791d851..741840f 100644
if null? q then
q := MAKE_STRING_INPUT_STREAM("File doesn't exist")$Lisp


\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 02:14:29 0500
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alasdair McAndrew
 Alfredo Portes
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alasdair McAndrew, Alfredo Portes
Subject: new hyperdoc changes
I've commited a patch that fixes the ContentType page handling the way
@@ 20528,19 +20248,11 @@ in the Cryptography Topic and fully expanded.
As usual, send questions.
Tim




\start
To: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sf.net
From: Francois Maltey
Date: 15 Oct 2007 14:48:41 +0200
Cc:
Subject: How to enumerate a product of lists (or integer
 sets)
+From: Francois Maltey
+To: list
+Subject: How to enumerate a product of lists (or integer sets)
Hello,
@@ 20582,18 +20294,11 @@ L := ['''matrix [[a,b,15ab],[c,d,15cd],[15ac,15bd,15ad]]
Is there an other way with axiom ?
Francois



\start
To: Francois Maltey
Subject: Re: How to enumerate a product of lists (or integer
 sets)
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 15 Oct 2007 15:20:16 +0200
Cc: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sf.net,
 fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Francois Maltey
+Subject: Re: How to enumerate a product of lists (or integer sets)
Francois Maltey writes:
@@ 20645,20 +20350,12 @@ is in my opinion much better to read then
[f(L.i, i) for i in 1..#L]

Martin




\start
To: Martin Rubey
Subject: Re: How to enumerate a product of lists (or integer
 sets)
From: Francois Maltey
Date: 15 Oct 2007 16:53:32 +0200
Cc: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sf.net

+From: Francois Maltey
+To: Martin Rubey
+Subject: Re: How to enumerate a product of lists (or integer sets)
+
Many thanks dear Martin !
> L := concat [concat [concat [[[a,b,c,d] _
@@ 20699,19 +20396,11 @@ of cartesian products with $...$... and very view train of for as above.
I don't suggest a where operator [f(i,j) for i in 1..10 where j in L]
for cartesian product ;)
Francois



\start
To: Francois Maltey
Subject: Re: How to enumerate a product of lists (or integer
 sets)
 <87ir58xwcz.fsf@nerim.fr>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 15 Oct 2007 17:03:18 +0200
Cc: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sf.net,
 fricasdevel
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Francois Maltey
+Subject: Re: How to enumerate a product of lists (or integer sets)
Francois Maltey writes:
@@ 20750,26 +20439,11 @@ which really results in the same problem, though.
Well, parallel iteration is not found in many languages, it is really a
strenght of Axiom/Aldor.
Martin






\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:33:50 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer
 Algebra Test Suite
To: Martin Rubey
Messageid: <4713885E.3060200@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <47131175.7070306@shaw.ca> <9q3awcalfo.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <47137B53.4030909@shaw.ca> <9q4pgs8m2h.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 recognized.
Cc: list
+Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
Martin Rubey wrote:
> Arthur Ralfs writes:
@@ 20797,40 +20471,21 @@ nice output in a browser. Although if we can get content mathml out of
axiom it may
prove more useful, but still not a replacement for latex.
Arthur



\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:40:37 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Martin Rubey
 Rubey on 15 Oct 2007 08:35:13 +0200)
Subject: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: list

Martin,
I found only 1 mention of tex4ht on MathAction.
It appears in the summer of code section.
Do you have a reference?
Tim



\start
To: Tim Daly
Subject: HyperDoc replacement,
 was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 15 Oct 2007 17:51:35 +0200
Cc: list,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 fricasdevel
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Tim Daly
+Subject: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
Tim Daly writes:
@@ 20871,22 +20526,11 @@ Again, the only point of my little program was to show that it should be fairly
easy to replace the hyperdoc rendering by a browser rendering, while keeping
all the other functionality.
Martin




\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:53:59 +0200
From: Ralf Hemmecke
To: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer
 Algebra Test Suite
 <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <47131175.7070306@shaw.ca>
 <9q3awcalfo.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <47137B53.4030909@shaw.ca>
 <9q4pgs8m2h.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <4713885E.3060200@shaw.ca>
Cc: list
+Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
>> I think it is not a good idea to reinvent tex4ht, nor do I think it is a good
>> idea to do without LaTeX.
@@ 20900,24 +20544,11 @@ Cc: list
As far as I know, tex4ht can also produce mathml. I think that I had
some problems, though.
Ralf



\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:04:08 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs
 Oct 2007 08:33:50 0700)
Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer
 Algebra Test Suite
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <47131175.7070306@shaw.ca> <9q3awcalfo.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <47137B53.4030909@shaw.ca> <9q4pgs8m2h.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <4713885E.3060200@shaw.ca>
Cc: list

Martin,
+Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
I followed that link and found your code.
@@ 20948,22 +20579,11 @@ nongraphics lisp code disappears from axiom.
It would also be nice to do things like save session history so the
user could construct a web page with input/output or write it to a file.
Tim



\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:21:26 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Martin Rubey
 Rubey on 15 Oct 2007 17:51:35 +0200)
Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement,
 was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
+Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
Thanks for the TeX4ht link.
@@ 20985,23 +20605,11 @@ I had an offlist discussion over the weekend about creating a domain
that does drawing into flash format which would allow "video" kinds
of output (e.g. evolving surfaces) from Axiom to be displayed in firefox.
Tim




\start
To: Tim Daly
Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement,
 was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <47131175.7070306@shaw.ca> <9q3awcalfo.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <47137B53.4030909@shaw.ca> <9q4pgs8m2h.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <4713885E.3060200@shaw.ca>
 <200710151604.l9FG48800728@localhost.localdomain>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 15 Oct 2007 21:06:45 +0200
Cc: fricasdevel , list
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Tim Daly
+Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
Tim Daly writes:
@@ 21012,25 +20620,11 @@ Tim Daly writes:
Eh, but that's exactly what my package does!? Did you look at it? Did you try
it?
Martin




\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:16:23 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Martin Rubey
 Rubey on 15 Oct 2007 21:06:45 +0200)
Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement,
 was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <47131175.7070306@shaw.ca> <9q3awcalfo.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <47137B53.4030909@shaw.ca> <9q4pgs8m2h.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <4713885E.3060200@shaw.ca>
 <200710151604.l9FG48800728@localhost.localdomain>
 <9q8x64fb96.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
>> I know we're going to need the output from system commands such as:
>> )show Polynomial(Fraction(Integer))
@@ 21042,22 +20636,12 @@ Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
Not yet. I downloaded it but I'm working at my real job at the moment.
I'll look at it later this evening.
Tim



\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:14:14 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
To: Alfredo Portes, Tim Daly
Messageid: <47141066.2080203@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 recognized.
Cc: list
Subject: axserver console interaction
Alfredo, Tim,

I've posted some changes to axserver on doyen
to test a different method of console interaction. The method
of showing/hiding branches is a little clunky but gives the idea
@@ 21067,15 +20651,10 @@ I'd like myself (unless someone comes up with something
I like better) but it would be easy to let users choose from more
than one method.
Arthur



\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:28:16 0400
From: Alfredo Portes
To: Arthur Ralfs
Cc: list
Subject: Re: axserver console interaction
Hi Arthur,
@@ 21101,21 +20680,11 @@ On 10/15/07, Arthur Ralfs wrote:
> I'd like myself (unless someone comes up with something
> I like better) but it would be easy to let users choose from more
> than one method.
>
> Arthur
>


\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:14:25 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
To: Alfredo Portes
Messageid: <47141E81.6060904@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0

 recognized.
Cc: list
Subject: Re: axserver console interaction
Alfredo,
@@ 21171,29 +20740,12 @@ Alfredo Portes wrote:
>> I'd like myself (unless someone comes up with something
>> I like better) but it would be easy to let users choose from more
>> than one method.
>>
>> Arthur
>>
>>
>
>



\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:33:27 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer
 Algebra Test Suite
To: Martin Rubey
Messageid: <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 recognized.
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
Martin,
@@ 21268,24 +20820,12 @@ Martin Rubey wrote:
> Again, the only point of my little program was to show that it should be fairly
> easy to replace the hyperdoc rendering by a browser rendering, while keeping
> all the other functionality.
>
> Martin
>
>
>



\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:44:11 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs
 Oct 2007 19:14:25 0700)
Subject: re: axserver console interaction

 <47141E81.6060904@shaw.ca>
Cc: list
>Alfredo,
>
@@ 21321,19 +20861,10 @@ I'm working on an example of the "free" mechanism from the old hyperdoc.
I'm trying to craft a generic solution to the problem so we just need
to embed the single javascript function.
Tim





\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:46:20 0700
From: Alfredo Portes
To: Arthur Ralfs

 <47141E81.6060904@shaw.ca>
Cc: list
Subject: Re: axserver console interaction
Hi Arthur,
@@ 21374,23 +20905,11 @@ If you want to play with it:
svn co https://alfredoportes.com/svn/jaxiom/trunk jyperdoc :)
Regards,

Alfredo



\start
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:56:33 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs
 Oct 2007 19:33:27 0700)
Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer
 Algebra Test Suite
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, list
+Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
>Arthur wrote:
>I took a look at the tex4ht package. Maybe I should tell you
@@ 21458,39 +20977,22 @@ can execute other functions in the domain. This would solve the
problem, which Martin's code solves, of doing things like calling
lisp functions for database lookup.
Tim




\start
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 02:12:50 0400
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs
 root on Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:30:47 0400)
 <4713C2B6.1010900@shaw.ca>


 <200710152030.l9FKUlJ00933@localhost.localdomain>
Cc: list, Constantine Frangos
Subject: Re: Hyperlinks
+Cc: Constantine Frangos
>> Tim Daly writes:
>> I need to understand this problem and the Suse problem in gcl
>> so I can give Camm some patches.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>Tim,
>
Arthur Ralfs writes:
>What problem are you having on Suse? That's what I use.
>
>Arthur

Arthur,
I've attached some of the correspondence with C. Frangos.
@@ 21508,11 +21010,6 @@ Do these make sense to you?
Do you have the same problem?
If you have a clue perhaps I can make a suse stanza to fix it.
Tim




==================================================================
There were two responses to your email re. the problem I have with
the axiom installation (see below).
@@ 21522,42 +21019,21 @@ done.
Any assistance would be much appreciated.
Thanks very much.

Regards,

C. Frangos.



> >
> >BOOT>(compile 'foo)
> >cc1: error: /root/axiom/mnt/fedora5/bin/../h: Permission denied
> >
+I belive this is the same problem as discussed in the thread starting at:
+http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiomdeveloper/200702/msg00186.html
I belive this is the same problem as discussed in the thread starting =
at:

http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiomdeveloper/200702/msg00186.htm=
l

It not easy to decide whom to blame (and which programs should be =
fixed).
+It not easy to decide whom to blame (and which programs should be fixed).
In whsandbox I worked around the problem by making sure that for
user compiler::*defaultsystemp* is set to nil (it _must_ be set
to t during build).
=20
 Waldek Hebisch






Greetings!
Turning off si::*defaultsystemp* as Waldek said works, but does so
@@ 21581,7 +21057,7 @@ si::resetsyspaths to help with this:
(setq si::*loadpath* nl))
nil)
i.e.=20
+i.e.
>(si::resetsyspaths "/new/location/gclinstall/")
>(si::savesystem "foo")
@@ 21592,7 +21068,7 @@ mv foo /new/location/gclinstall/unixport/
GCL's make install is supposed to do this, but if the axiom build is
moving gcl images around by hand, this needs to be invoked at some
point.=20
+point.
Bob Boyer once convinced me that autoloading and other dependence on
runtime files to be found in particular locations was a really bad
@@ 21608,58 +21084,49 @@ Take care,
Tim Daly writes:
> Camm,
>=20
+>
> GCL seems to have built on Suse 10.2 and the system command works.
> The GCC compiler appears to be in the path. Yet it appears that
> GCL cannot execute it. CC1 seems to be looking in the wrong place
> for the .h files. Do you have any insight into this?
>=20
+>
> Tim
>=20
+>
> From: "C. Frangos" Constantine Frangos
> Subject: Re: Installing axiom on suse linux 10.2
> To: Tim Daly
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 23:00:10 +0200
> ReplyTo: Constantine Frangos
>=20
>=20
> I tried the instructions and it seems that the )sys command is=20
+>
+>
+> I tried the instructions and it seems that the )sys command is
> working.
>=20
+>
> I use this command to delete foo1, and call gcc in order to compile =
one of=20
+one of
my=20
+my
> C programs located in another directory (see below).
>=20
+>
> It seems that gcc is on the path, but I dont recall the linux command =
to=20
+to
> explicitly check this.
>=20
+>
> Regards,
>=20
+>
> C. Frangos.
>=20
>=20
> (1) > )sys rm /home/cfrangos/temp/foo1 =20
+>
+>
+> (1) > )sys rm /home/cfrangos/temp/foo1
> (1) > )sys gcc o test1 /home/cfrangos/src/agvs1.c lm O3
> (1) >=20
>=20




+> (1) >
+>
\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 16 Oct 2007 08:23:23 +0200
Cc: list,
 openaxiomdevel
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: HyperDoc replacement
+From: Martin Rubey
+To:
+Subject: Re: Re: HyperDoc replacement
Arthur Ralfs writes:
@@ 21670,20 +21137,11 @@ Arthur Ralfs writes:
I think that would not be a problem. But in what sense and why do you think
that tex4ht is "hard to install"?
Martin




\start
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:48:51 +0200
From: Ralf Hemmecke
To: Eitan Gurari
Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer
 Algebra Test Suite
 <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain> <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, list
+Subject: Re: HyperDoc replacement, was: Re: CATS  Computer Algebra Test Suite
Dear Eitan,
@@ 21722,19 +21180,11 @@ On 10/16/2007 04:33 AM, Arthur Ralfs wrote:
> I am not against other approaches. The more the merrier.
> But for now I am only interested in the above.


\start
To: Gabriel Dos Reis
 <9qlka39ooe.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <4714BEFD.7060004@hemmecke.de>
 <87fy0b9kuk.fsf@soliton.cs.tamu.edu>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 16 Oct 2007 16:47:06 +0200
Cc: axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 fricasdevel
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] [Axiommail] A little
 print problem
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Gabriel Dos Reis
+Subject: Re: [Axiommail] A little print problem
Gabriel Dos Reis writes:
@@ 21748,24 +21198,11 @@ Gabriel Dos Reis writes:
whsandbox does not have this problem, it seems.
Martin




\start
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 07:54:28 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: re: [fricasdevel] Re: HyperDoc replacement
To: Martin Rubey
Messageid: <4714D0A4.9000409@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
 <9qprzfinms.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 recognized.
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+Subject: re: Re: HyperDoc replacement
Martin Rubey wrote:
> Arthur Ralfs writes:
@@ 21789,22 +21226,12 @@ to some precompiled systems but no directions for a general
from scratch build. It looks like an interesting project though.
Do you think you can get it working as part of an axiom build?
Arthur



\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] re: [fricasdevel] Re:
 HyperDoc replacement
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
 <9qprzfinms.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <4714D0A4.9000409@shaw.ca>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 16 Oct 2007 17:17:40 +0200
Cc: Eitan Gurari, list,
 openaxiomdevel
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: re: Re: HyperDoc replacement
+Cc: Eitan Gurari
Arthur Ralfs writes:
@@ 21826,25 +21253,12 @@ No. I'm a mathematician ;)
But since tex4ht's status on ctan.org is "maintained", I'd trust that people in
the know should get it working. Maybe Eitan would help, if necessary.
Martin





\start
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:25:14 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] re: [fricasdevel] Re:
 HyperDoc replacement
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
 <9qprzfinms.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <4714D0A4.9000409@shaw.ca>
 <9qsl4bozqj.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: Eitan Gurari, list,
 openaxiomdevel
+To:
+Subject: Re: re: Re: HyperDoc replacement
+Cc: Eitan Gurari
On Tue, 16 Oct 2007, Martin Rubey wrote:
@@ 21855,26 +21269,11 @@ On Tue, 16 Oct 2007, Martin Rubey wrote:
So, those working to get the system built and running are not
mathematicians?
 Gaby



\start
From: Eitan Gurari
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:34:18 0400
+From: Eitan Gurari
To: Martin Rubey
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] re: [fricasdevel] Re:
 HyperDoc replacement
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
 <9qprzfinms.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <4714D0A4.9000409@shaw.ca> <9qsl4bozqj.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 list

+Subject: Re: re: Re: HyperDoc replacement
> > Looking at the home page I saw directions for updating and a link
> > to some precompiled systems but no directions for a general
@@ 21895,27 +21294,12 @@ are provided for building the system from scratch.
I'll be glad to help with specific questions.
eitan




\start
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:52:55 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] re: [fricasdevel] Re:
 HyperDoc replacement
To: Martin Rubey
Messageid: <47159527.9070508@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
 <9qprzfinms.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <4714D0A4.9000409@shaw.ca>
 <9qsl4bozqj.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 recognized.
Cc: Eitan Gurari, list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sf.net, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+Subject: Re: re: Re: HyperDoc replacement
+Cc: Eitan Gurari
Martin Rubey wrote:
> Arthur Ralfs writes:
@@ 21942,26 +21326,11 @@ not immediately obvious. I would have to really really want to use
tex4ht to bother with it. All I want to do is test out some latex to mathml
conversions. Maybe you could do that for me and post the results?
Arthur



\start
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:07:37 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] re: [fricasdevel] Re:
 HyperDoc replacement
To: Eitan Gurari
Messageid: <4715A6A9.30308@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <4712E55C.8070409@shaw.ca> <9q8x647un2.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <200710151540.l9FFebW00701@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qwstowf3s.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <471422F7.6040806@shaw.ca>
 <9qprzfinms.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <4714D0A4.9000409@shaw.ca>
 <9qsl4bozqj.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <47159527.9070508@shaw.ca>
 <18197.39220.826605.46941@xi.cse.ohiostate.edu>
 recognized.
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+Subject: Re: re: Re: HyperDoc replacement
Eitan Gurari wrote:
> > tex4ht to bother with it. All I want to do is test out some latex to mathml
@@ 21986,20 +21355,12 @@ axiom build. I don't know at this point who might be up for doing
that, or if it would be acceptable to the maintainers of the various
axiom forks.
Arthur



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 02:23:42 0500
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alfredo Portes
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alfredo Portes
Subject: newhyper.pamphlet
Arthur,

I've rewritten newhyper.pamphlet to use the new output format from
axserver.spad. Now the basic command pages show the input command
as well as the output exactly as before. But the new pages, like
@@ 22009,18 +21370,12 @@ I still have to build and test a release of Axiom that has the new
axserver.spad and http.lisp but once it builds and passes tests I'll
post the new hyperdoc pages.
Tim



\start
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:43:00 +0200 (CEST)
From: Franz Lehner
To: list
Subject: hashing
Hello,

since hashing and remember tables came up recently,
I have a question how it works.
)set fun cache
@@ 22069,18 +21424,10 @@ This leads to my questions:
However hash returns 0 anyways for most domains I tried.
3. How do I make my key domains hashable?
best regards,
Franz




\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:55:36 0500
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alfredo Portes
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alfredo Portes
Subject: 20071020.01.acr.patch
This patch changes the AJAX communication to use the new return values
@@ 22387,18 +21734,10 @@ index 6feb283..0b264bf 100644
(defun SiAccept (s) (si::accept s))
(defun SiCopyStream (q s) (si::copystream q s))
+
+



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:15:33 0500
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alfredo Portes,
 Alasdair McAndrew
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alfredo Portes, Alasdair McAndrew
Subject: new hyperdoc
Arthur, Alfredo, Alasdair,
@@ 22465,20 +21804,11 @@ See the chunk <> to see how this works.
With these pieces in place I can proceed to convert a large number of the
existing hyperdoc pages in the upcoming weeks.
Tim





\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 axiomdevel
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 21 Oct 2007 16:16:20 +0200
Cc:
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: iterators
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Re: iterators
Waldek Hebisch writes:
@@ 22509,20 +21839,11 @@ didn't read it yet. Maybe that would help?
SPAD. Most important to me would still be types being truly first class
objects.)
Martin




\start
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:22:04 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: new hyperdoc
To: Tim Daly
Messageid: <471B6E9C.7070105@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 recognized.
Cc: list
+Subject: Re: new hyperdoc
Tim Daly wrote:
> (Arthur, I should note that axserver can construct an improper reply
@@ 22536,17 +21857,10 @@ Tim,
Can you give an example of when that occurs?
Arthur



\start
To: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
From: Francois Maltey
Date: 21 Oct 2007 20:20:54 +0200
Cc:
+From: Francois Maltey
+To: list
Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
Hello, I have subscribed to the two lists openaxiom and fricas.
@@ 22610,20 +21924,11 @@ because they must exist (do you agree ?),
I wait with Martin such operators.
F.



\start
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:48:25 +0200
From: Ralf Hemmecke
To: Martin Rubey,
 Stephen Watt, aldorl
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: axiomdevel , fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 openaxiomdevel
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] [fricasdevel] Re:
 iterators
+To: Martin Rubey, Stephen Watt
+Subject: Re: Re: iterators
> OK. I'd still prefer to keep the language simple. What I would like a lot
> however is something like
@@ 22650,19 +21955,11 @@ Stephen Watt,
is there a particular reason why the latter construction is not allowed
in the Aldor language (I am not speaking of the compiler)?
Ralf



\start
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 22:11:21 +0200
From: Ralf Hemmecke
To: Francois Maltey
 <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] iterators and cartesian
 product.
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
> It's maybe impossible to have parenthesis for crossproduct,
> because they are used for functions,
@@ 22733,21 +22030,12 @@ And it already works in Axiom.
(10) 7
Type: Integer
Ralf



\start
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:28:09 0400
From: Stephen Watt
To: Ralf Hemmecke
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <471BAD09.2090509@hemmecke.de>
Cc: Stephen Watt , fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 aldorl , axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] [fricasdevel] Re:
 iterators
+Subject: Re: Re: iterators
+Cc: Stephen Watt
There is no deep reason why it is not allowed.
It would be a compatible extension to allow it.
@@ 22779,19 +22067,12 @@ On Sun, Oct 21, 2007 at 09:48:25PM +0200, Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
>
> is there a particular reason why the latter construction is not allowed
> in the Aldor language (I am not speaking of the compiler)?
>
> Ralf


\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 22 Oct 2007 08:43:18 +0200
Cc: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian
 product.
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
Francois Maltey writes:
@@ 22803,20 +22084,10 @@ Francois Maltey writes:
So, how do you do parallel iteration in MuPad?


Martin





\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 02:30:32 0500
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alfredo Portes
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alfredo Portes
Subject: newhyper.pamphlet
I've expanded the next level of the "Topics > Numbers" page.
@@ 22843,39 +22114,16 @@ firefox http://127.0.0.1:8085/home/silver/rootpage.xhtml
The top 6 pages of Topics > Numbers have been expanded.
Tim



\start
To: Robert Funnell
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help


 <9qabqgbg0o.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

 <9q7iljzfjo.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

 <9q8x5y99bt.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

 <9qve922e6i.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

 <9qmyudly86.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

 <9qprz9ycmu.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

From: Martin Rubey
Date: 22 Oct 2007 09:38:44 +0200
PostedTo: gnu.emacs.help
Cc: axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 fricasdevel
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Robert Funnell
Subject: keybindings for axiommode
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to gnu.emacs.help as well.
Robert Funnell writes:
+Robert Funnell writes:
> > Since I'm not so familiar with escape sequences, could you tell me what
> > keystrokes correspond to "C[ up"?
@@ 22938,22 +22186,11 @@ which is axiomcopytoclipboard, is called with the integer argument 7. Thus,
it would copy the previous seven inputoutput combinations into the killring.
I find this extremely useful if I want to communicate what I did in axiom...

Martin




\start
To: Martin Rubey
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
 <9qk5pfr6nt.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
From: Francois Maltey
Date: 22 Oct 2007 11:30:05 +0200
Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 list
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] [fricasdevel] Re:
 iterators and cartesian product.
+From: Francois Maltey
+To: Martin Rubey
+Subject: Re: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
Hello Martin,
@@ 22995,20 +22232,11 @@ For theses 2 examples I feel mupad better than maple. I don't know mathematica.
Is it an answer to your question ?
Francois



\start
To: Francois Maltey
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
 <9qk5pfr6nt.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <871wbnlco2.fsf@nerim.fr>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 22 Oct 2007 11:54:11 +0200
Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 list
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] [fricasdevel] Re:
 iterators and cartesian product.
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Francois Maltey
+Subject: Re: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
Francois Maltey writes:
@@ 23094,22 +22322,11 @@ In fact, it nearly works:
Hm, I do not understand this sentence at all. Which command breaks what?

Martin




\start
To: Francois Maltey
Subject: re: [openaxiomdevel] [fricasdevel] Re:
 iterators and cartesian product.
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
 <9qk5pfr6nt.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <871wbnlco2.fsf@nerim.fr>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
Date: 22 Oct 2007 05:30:25 0500
Cc: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+From: Gabriel Dos Reis
+To: Francois Maltey
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
Francois Maltey writes:
@@ 23145,18 +22362,10 @@ are things that work well for `programming in small' (e.g. scripts of
1020 lines) and things do not scale to `programming in large'
(e.g. 10100 thousands of lines of libraries)
 Gaby



\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
 <471BB269.3010107@hemmecke.de>
From: Francois Maltey
Date: 22 Oct 2007 12:54:11 +0200
Cc:
+From: Francois Maltey
+To: list
Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
I play with Tuple :
@@ 23210,18 +22419,10 @@ with standard operators and take the better of these two domains.
4/ Tuple aren't strong typed :
tuple any isn't a cartesianProduct(Integer,String)



\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
 <9qk5pfr6nt.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <871wbnlco2.fsf@nerim.fr>
 <9qejfn5vb0.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
From: Francois Maltey
Date: 22 Oct 2007 13:16:32 +0200
Cc:
+From: Francois Maltey
+To: list
Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
Hello,
@@ 23285,19 +22486,11 @@ but
is exactly the mathematic form of a Cartesian product.
It seems better.
F.



\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
 <471BB269.3010107@hemmecke.de> <87wstfju7g.fsf__@nerim.fr>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 22 Oct 2007 13:19:43 +0200
Cc: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian
 product.
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
Francois Maltey writes:
@@ 23326,21 +22519,11 @@ project, in a very general setting. Unfortunately, the multisort case is not
yet finished, which is probably what you would need to get Cartesian products
"beautifully".
Martin




\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
 <9qk5pfr6nt.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <871wbnlco2.fsf@nerim.fr>
 <9qejfn5vb0.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87fy03jt67.fsf__@nerim.fr>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 22 Oct 2007 13:40:26 +0200
Cc: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian
 product.
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
Francois Maltey writes:
@@ 23372,19 +22555,10 @@ is the same as
Union_{(a,b,c)\in A x B x C} F_{a,b,c}

Martin




\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, Peter Broadbery,
 axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 23 Oct 2007 08:36:16 +0200
Cc:
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Peter Broadbery
Subject: tracing and profiling
Waldek Hebisch writes:
@@ 23534,20 +22708,11 @@ Martin
Integer.zero?,25 : 0 times
*1;tst;1;frame0 : 21891 times




\start
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:49:06 +0200
From: Ralf Hemmecke
To: Gabriel Dos Reis
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] Re: [fricasdevel]
 Re: iterators and cartesian product.
 <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr> <9qk5pfr6nt.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <871wbnlco2.fsf@nerim.fr> <871wbnzbjy.fsf@soliton.cs.tamu.edu>
Cc: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
+Subject: iterators and cartesian product.
>  It looks like mathematical expression {matrix ...  (a,b,c,d) in {1..9}^4}.
@@ 23584,22 +22749,11 @@ provide the code.)
So the syntax is there only the functionality is not available in any
library. One has to program it oneself.
Ralf





\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <9qzlyca6yz.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <87myucgwhl.fsf__@nerim.fr>
 <9qk5pfr6nt.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at> <871wbnlco2.fsf@nerim.fr>
 <9qejfn5vb0.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 24 Oct 2007 08:33:57 +0200
Cc: list, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian product.
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
Since there seems to be a slight misunderstanding, which I probably caused by
an upper case letter: I meant to write
@@ 23612,16 +22766,10 @@ an upper case letter: I meant to write
That is, I thought of cartesianProduct as a function.
Martin




\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:58:52 0500
+From: Tim Daly
To: Alasdair McAndrew
Cc: list
Subject: wxAxiom
wxAxiom exists as a private branch in my local git tree
@@ 23638,58 +22786,23 @@ work and I'm building on that.
Things will be slow for a while as I have a family crisis
which is taking up most of my time and attention.
Tim





\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:47:53 +0100
From: Ralf Hemmecke
To: Bill Page
 <87tzojxjqm.fsf@soliton.cs.tamu.edu>





 <47279AFF.5010202@hemmecke.de>

 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

Cc: axiomdev , fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 axiommath@nongnu.org, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] [fricasdevel] Re:
 [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian product.
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
> Yes exactly, although I am not sure why we need both Cross and Record.
Elements of Record are mutable, elements of Cross are not.
Ralf

PS: Shouldn't this discussion go to axiomdeveloper instead of axiommath?


\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:16:32 0400
From: Bill Page
To: Ralf Hemmecke




 <47279AFF.5010202@hemmecke.de>

 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>
Cc: axiomdev , fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 axiommath@nongnu.org, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] [fricasdevel] Re:
 [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian product.
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On 10/31/07, Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> > Yes exactly, although I am not sure why we need both Cross and Record.
@@ 23718,30 +22831,11 @@ and about category theory in Axiom/Aldor. But I have to admit that the
profusion of email lists about Axiom, it's forks and Aldor is
confusing to me and probably to our collective disadvantage.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:58:41 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com




 <47279AFF.5010202@hemmecke.de>

 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>

Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re:
 [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Bill Page wrote:
@@ 23751,28 +22845,11 @@ On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Bill Page wrote:
Haskell has imperative skin  check out `monad'.
 Gaby



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:39:29 0400
From: Bill Page
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com


 <47279AFF.5010202@hemmecke.de>

 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>


Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re: [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian
 product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On 10/31/07, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>
@@ 23799,30 +22876,11 @@ interesting to consider implementing something akin to monads in
Aldor/SPAD, but I think you will agree that fundamentally these
languages were not designed to be purely functional.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:11:18 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com


 <47279AFF.5010202@hemmecke.de>

 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>



Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re:
 [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Bill Page wrote:
@@ 23868,28 +22926,11 @@ I would prefer a more powerful effect system for OpenAxiom.
I do not see `purely functional' as as necessity.
 Gaby



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:42:14 0400
From: Bill Page
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <47279AFF.5010202@hemmecke.de>

 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>




Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re: [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian
 product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On 10/31/07, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>
@@ 23955,30 +22996,11 @@ I am sorry. I don't mean to sound rude, but I just don't understand
where your comments lead. Could you say something more about what you
are considering for implemention in OpenAxiom?
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:55:10 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <47279AFF.5010202@hemmecke.de>

 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>





Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re:
 [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Bill Page wrote:
@@ 24037,28 +23059,11 @@ domain are purely functional  therefore the caching implementation
technique is sound for them  and which have effects, therefore
should not be cached.
 Gaby



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:29:45 0400
From: Bill Page
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>






Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re: [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian
 product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On 10/31/07, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>
@@ 24163,30 +23168,11 @@ comment further.
I think that is a very worthwhile goal. Thanks for explaining.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:54:51 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>







Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re:
 [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Bill Page wrote:
@@ 24241,29 +23227,11 @@ http://research.microsoft.com/~simonpj/papers/haskellretrospective/HaskellRetro
skip to page 40.

 Gaby



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 23:13:43 0400
From: Bill Page
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>








Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re: [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian
 product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On 10/31/07, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>
@@ 24310,30 +23278,11 @@ Oh yah, I remember that. I suppose we could use that name for monad in Axiom:
...
;)
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:16:52 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>









Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re:
 [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On Wed, 31 Oct 2007, Bill Page wrote:
diff git a/book/200711.txt b/book/200711.txt
index f084561..5d47bf8 100644
 a/book/200711.txt
+++ b/book/200711.txt
@@ 1,21 +1,8 @@
\start
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 00:16:43 0400
From: Bill Page
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com









Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re: [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian
 product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On 10/31/07, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>
@@ 67,19 +54,12 @@ Sorry, I don't understand that at all. Maybe this discussion is best
saved for another time after I have had more time to think about how
to do these things in Axiom.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 01:49:22 0400
From: Bill Page
To: list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
Cc: William Stein, sagedevel@googlegroups.com,
 AxiomMail
+To: list
Subject: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
+Cc: William Stein
Dear Axiom Users and Developers;
@@ 192,20 +172,12 @@ more time but this should be completed in the new few days.
And as usual, if you have any questions, comments, suggestions or
criticisms I would be glad to hear them.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 01 Nov 2007 07:21:57 +0100
Cc: sagedevel@googlegroups.com, William Stein,
 list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net, AxiomMail
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Axiom Wiki and Portal are
 moving
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
+Cc: William Stein
Dear Bill,
@@ 250,32 +222,10 @@ in source, it is a must (if possible) to keep the database numbering as is.
Do you know already whether transferring is a fundamental problem?

Many thanks again and good luck,


Martin




\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com




 <47279AFF.5010202@hemmecke.de>

 <47289E1F.80509@risc.unilinz.ac.at>

 <4728B1B9.807@hemmecke.de>


From: Francois Maltey
Date: 01 Nov 2007 09:31:46 +0100
Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
+From: Francois Maltey
+To: list
Subject: About mutable and functions.
I like this discuss about mutable variables.
@@ 333,29 +283,11 @@ But list becomes mutable with L.3 := 33. This assign command is too easy.
A setelt! (L, 3, 33) doesn't hide the same difficult.
Francois.



\start
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 07:50:35 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com










Cc: openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 axiomdev , axiommath@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: [openaxiomdevel]
 [fricasdevel] Re:
 [fricasdevel] Re: iterators and cartesian product.
+To: list
+Subject: Re: iterators and cartesian product.
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Bill Page wrote:
@@ 384,21 +316,11 @@ explanations, I can point you there. Wadler's paper is one of the
simplest explanations. Or, you can go directly read Moggi's paper.
If you still disagree, then, let stop it at there.
 Gaby



\start
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:36:52 0700
From: Arthur Ralfs Arthur Ralfs
+From: Arthur Ralfs
To: Constantine Frangos
Messageid: <4728E764.20400@mathbrane.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <07103121044602.09891@zeta>
 recognized.
Cc: list
Subject: Re: [Axiommath] Axiom: Errors on suse 10.2,
 32 bit
+Subject: Re: [Axiommath] Axiom: Errors on suse 10.2, 32 bit
Constantine,
@@ 568,22 +490,13 @@ Constantine Frangos wrote:
>> b7f70000b7f8b000 rxp 00000000 08:05 2019173 /lib/ld2.5.so
>> b7f8b000b7f8d000 rwp 0001a000 08:05 2019173 /lib/ld2.5.so
>> bfc9d000bfcb4000 rwp bfc9d000 00:00 0 [stack]
>>
>
>



\start
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:07:09 0400
From: Bill Page
To: Martin Rubey
 <9qzlxypjsq.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are
 moving
+Cc: list
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
Martin,
@@ 719,21 +632,11 @@ enabled at the axiomdeveloper.org site but not yet at the
newsynthesis site. I will try this as soon as I get a bit more serious
time to spend on it (this weekend).
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 09:13:19 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <9qzlxypjsq.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

Cc: list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are
 moving
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Bill Page wrote:
@@ 754,21 +657,11 @@ means implies 'noncooperation'  but I cannot prevent determined
people to construe it that way. We can definitely work out twoway
communication channels between the tracker if that is possible.
 Gaby



\start
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:30:52 0400
From: Bill Page
To: Gabriel Dos Reis
 <9qzlxypjsq.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>


Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net,
 list
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] [fricasdevel] Re: Axiom
 Wiki and Portal are moving
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
On 11/1/07, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Bill Page wrote:
@@ 816,20 +709,12 @@ filtered and added to a specific web page on the Axiom wiki. Perhaps a
similar link could be implemented in the other direction since I think
it is possible to submit issues to SourceForge via email, right?
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
To: Bill Page
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
Date: 01 Nov 2007 12:54:00 0500
Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, sagedevel@googlegroups.com,
 William Stein,
 list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net, AxiomMail
+From: Gabriel Dos Reis
+To: Bill Page
Subject: Re: [Axiommail] Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
+Cc: William Stein
Bill Page writes:
@@ 845,20 +730,12 @@ Bill Page writes:
What will happen to the email MathAction?
 Gaby



\start
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 14:14:10 0400
From: Bill Page
To: Gabriel Dos Reis
 <87k5p1c0nb.fsf@soliton.cs.tamu.edu>
Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, sagedevel@googlegroups.com,
 William Stein,
 list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net, AxiomMail
Subject: Re: [Axiommail] Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
+Cc: William Stein
On 01 Nov 2007 12:54:00 0500, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Bill Page writes:
@@ 901,22 +778,12 @@ to some appropriate mailing list.
Any preferences?
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 13:19:06 0500 (CDT)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: Bill Page
 <87k5p1c0nb.fsf@soliton.cs.tamu.edu>

Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, sagedevel@googlegroups.com,
 William Stein,
 list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net, AxiomMail
Subject: Re: [Axiommail] Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
+Cc: William Stein
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Bill Page wrote:
@@ 938,15 +805,10 @@ may just discontinue MathAction as well. But, not
having to do the actual work, it might be easier for me to state what
should be done...
 Gaby



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 14:29:54 0600
+From: Tim Daly
To: Bill Page
Cc: list
Subject: wiki.axiomdeveloper.org
Bill,
@@ 981,24 +843,12 @@ the server will cost me about $5000./yr within a year. I need to reduce
this cost considerably. Thus, I've asked you to find another server
and William Stein has been kind enough to host your effort.
Tim








\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 22:37:33 +0100 (CET)
From: Waldek Hebisch
Cc: sagedevel@googlegroups.com, William Stein,
 list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net, AxiomMail
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Axiom Wiki and Portal are
 moving
+To: list
+Cc: William Stein
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
Bill Page wrote:
>
@@ 1132,23 +982,12 @@ bug tracker make sense only if one can restrict view so that
only bugs reported against given fork are visible. Technically,
this should be not a problem...


 Waldek Hebisch
Waldek Hebisch



\start
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:22:47 0400
From: Bill Page
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com

Cc: sagedevel@googlegroups.com, William Stein,
 list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net, AxiomMail
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are
 moving
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
+Cc: William Stein
On 11/1/07, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
>
@@ 1421,20 +1260,12 @@ that includes it's own integrated wiki and interface to subversion.
Do you think we should try to operate something like this as a common
bug tracker for all the Axiom versions/forks?
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:27:22 +0100 (CET)
From: Waldek Hebisch
Cc: sagedevel@googlegroups.com, William Stein,
 list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net, AxiomMail
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are
 moving
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
+Cc: William Stein
Bill Page wrote:
>
@@ 1665,22 +1496,11 @@ and works "good enough". I belive that changing IssueTracker in
specific aspect I mentioned would not be very hard. So, now
it is mostly question what other versions want.

 Waldek Hebisch
Waldek Hebisch



\start
To: Bill Page
 <9qzlxypjsq.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

From: Martin Rubey
Date: 05 Nov 2007 10:06:09 +0100
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are
 moving
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Bill Page
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
Dear Bill, *
@@ 1746,22 +1566,11 @@ to
I need short names for the next axiom workshop :)
Martin




\start
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 10:38:30 0400
From: Bill Page
To: Martin Rubey
 <9qzlxypjsq.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

 <9qejf5qcxq.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: list, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are
 moving
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
On 05 Nov 2007 10:06:09 +0100, Martin Rubey wrote:
> Dear Bill, *
@@ 1892,16 +1701,10 @@ Aldor workshop to occur at this time and place. I will be coming to
this meeting if at all possible, so perhaps we will finally meet in
person. :)
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:31:18 0400
From: Bill Page
To: Tim Daly
Cc: list
Subject: Re: wiki.axiomdeveloper.org
On 11/1/07, Tim Daly wrote:
@@ 1971,20 +1774,11 @@ No problem. Nothing lasts for ever. Thanks for providing the
opportunity for me to contribute to Axiom in this way for the last 3
years.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:01:01 +0100
From: Ralf Hemmecke
To: Bill Page

Cc: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com, list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [openaxiomdevel] [fricasdevel] Re: Axiom
 Wiki and Portal are moving
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Portal are moving
> About the next axiom workshop: Is there anything planned to coincide
> with the upcoming ISSAC meeting (July 2008?) at Risc?
@@ 1995,17 +1789,11 @@ No, not coinciding. But there are plans to have a
during the RISCSummer at July 2426, i.e. right after ISSAC.
Ralf



\start
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 12:19:58 0500
From: Alfredo Portes
To: Bill Page
Subject: re: wiki.axiomdeveloper.org

Cc: list
> I certainly understand your desire to reduce the operating costs but I
> think that it is no longer true that most of the costs are associated
@@ 2023,35 +1811,19 @@ one together
with some of the packages necessary to build it. The iso is 686 M and the total
for the /home/alfredo directory is now: 823 M.
Regards,

Alfredo



\start
+Date: 12 Nov 2007 08:23:32 +0100
+From: Martin Rubey
To: Tim Daly
Subject: Re: wiki.axiomdeveloper.org
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 12 Nov 2007 08:23:32 +0100
Cc: list
It seems that the old wiki is down. Did we loose IssueTracker now?
Martin




\start
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 07:24:12 0500
From: Bill Page
To: Martin Rubey
Subject: Re: wiki.axiomdeveloper.org
 <9qfxzcq64r.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: list

Martin,
There is some problem right now (cause unknown) with Apache on the
axiomdeveloper.org server. But the wiki itself is not down. You can
@@ 2068,35 +1840,22 @@ On 12 Nov 2007 08:23:32 +0100, Martin Rubey wrote:
> It seems that the old wiki is down. Did we loose IssueTracker now?
>
> Martin
>
>


\start
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:48:16 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: Alfredo Portes,
 Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs
Cc: list
+To: Alfredo Portes, Arthur Ralfs
Subject: newhyper.pamphlet
A new version of newhyper.pamphlet is checked in.
It implements rootpage > topics > numbers > Cardinal Numbers
Tim



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:40:01 0600
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: bug 7014: mathml parsing bug
Arthur,

)set out mathml on
z:=continuedFraction(3,repeating [1], repeating [3,6])
@@ 2105,19 +1864,11 @@ gives the correct answer and then fails with:
>> System error:
Cannot take first of an empty list
Tim



\start
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:13:22 0800
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: bug 7014: mathml parsing bug
To: Tim Daly
Messageid: <473FD802.6050806@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 recognized.
Cc: list
+Subject: Re: bug 7014: mathml parsing bug
Tim Daly wrote:
> Arthur,
@@ 2136,17 +1887,12 @@ Tim Daly wrote:
Thanks Tim, I'll look into that as soon as I can, which unfortunately
will not be right away.
Arthur



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:59:03 0600
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc: Willaim Stein William Stein, David Joyner,
 Paul Zimmermann
Subject: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: William Stein, David Joyner, Paul Zimmermann
David Joyner and William Stein published an opinion piece in the
AMS Notices raising (yet again) the issue of mathematical results
@@ 2219,16 +1965,10 @@ Axiom is basic science and has long term plans to be the foundation
of open, provably correct, computational mathematics. Sadly, I feel
that funding is only likely after the fact. Oh well. The work continues.
Tim Daly
Tim Daly



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:01:51 0600
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: bug 7015: display of hex digits is wrong in mathml
Arthur,
@@ 2239,16 +1979,11 @@ in axiom but shows up as
#\A
in mathml.
Tim



\start
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:32:03 0800
From: "William Stein" William Stein
To: Tim Daly, sagedevel@googlegroups.com
Cc: list, Paul Zimmermann ,
 David Joyner
+From: William Stein
+To: Tim Daly
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
Subject: Re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
On Nov 18, 2007 12:59 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
@@ 2286,30 +2021,29 @@ To date NSF funding for Sage has meant:
* conference and workshop support.
* a 50% postdoc  Clement Pernet.
The postdoc is by far the single biggest chunk of funding for Sage from the
NSF. This, as you say, fits very much into the academic context. What made
hiring him palatable to NSF is that Clement Pernet is doing very interesting
cutting edge work on exact linear algebra and publishes papers about this.
Thus hiring him supports the NSF mission in fundamental research. It just
happens he will also do work that will improve Sage as well. So far
NSF has never given us blanket money "for Sage", yet. I wish they would, but
I don't really see that as being likely. Much more likely is that
they fund specific
research projects, which have improving open source mathematical software
as a pleasant side effect. More examples below.
+The postdoc is by far the single biggest chunk of funding for Sage
+from the NSF. This, as you say, fits very much into the academic
+context. What made hiring him palatable to NSF is that Clement Pernet
+is doing very interesting cutting edge work on exact linear algebra
+and publishes papers about this. Thus hiring him supports the NSF
+mission in fundamental research. It just happens he will also do work
+that will improve Sage as well. So far NSF has never given us blanket
+money "for Sage", yet. I wish they would, but I don't really see that
+as being likely. Much more likely is that they fund specific research
+projects, which have improving open source mathematical software as a
+pleasant side effect. More examples below.
It's worth mentioning that NSF has funded Macaulay2 a lot over the years...
By the way, I was recently at an NSF workshop, and I got the strong
impression that NSF doesn't really "like" funding the purchases of
commercial software
very much. Also, some NSF programs will in practice actually reject proposals
that say they won't publish the software that comes
out of their work as open source... I had the impression that there is a new
sort of grass roots movement
by actual mathematicians that advise NSF toward supporting open source.
This was very surprising to me, but it's actually what appears to be happening,
very slowly but surely. This is good news for us.
+commercial software very much. Also, some NSF programs will in
+practice actually reject proposals that say they won't publish the
+software that comes out of their work as open source... I had the
+impression that there is a new sort of grass roots movement by actual
+mathematicians that advise NSF toward supporting open source. This
+was very surprising to me, but it's actually what appears to be
+happening, very slowly but surely. This is good news for us.
> First, the NSF funds the purchase of commercial software at universities.
> Thus they explicity fund software that competes with open source.
@@ 2325,15 +2059,15 @@ You are correct. That is our primary goal, though I much prefer the word
> they can get from the NSF with such commerciallycompetitive goals.
I think we can get a drop in the bucket, but it is an important one.
It will take other funding sources besides NSF, or funding other projects
that just happen to have a positive impact on open source software, to
really accomplish what we want. For example, I recently applied with
several people for a big "FRG" (focused research grant) on Lfunctions
and modular forms  if it were funded it would advance
number theory research, but it would also have as a side effect advancing open
source mathematical software. And there are other funding
source, e.g., taxfree donations, which do help, and have directly benefited
sage already.
+It will take other funding sources besides NSF, or funding other
+projects that just happen to have a positive impact on open source
+software, to really accomplish what we want. For example, I recently
+applied with several people for a big "FRG" (focused research grant)
+on Lfunctions and modular forms  if it were funded it would advance
+number theory research, but it would also have as a side effect
+advancing open source mathematical software. And there are other
+funding source, e.g., taxfree donations, which do help, and have
+directly benefited sage already.
> Third, even if the NSF funded SAGE, how would those funds benefit the
> various subprojects like Axiom? Open source is mostly volunteer work
@@ 2379,38 +2113,30 @@ instead of competing with them.
> released. Is this what the NSF sees as the correct long term basis for
> a fundamental science like computational mathematics?
I think you're right to be worried about exactly these things. Some people
in my research area (number theory / arithmetic geometry) are
worried about this right now in the context of Magma, whose longterm future is
hazy at present. There are actually many examples like this already, e.g.,
Mupad doesn't seem to be doing so well commercially, and maybe
researchers who have written a lot of mupad code aren't so happy about this...
+I think you're right to be worried about exactly these things. Some
+people in my research area (number theory / arithmetic geometry) are
+worried about this right now in the context of Magma, whose longterm
+future is hazy at present. There are actually many examples like this
+already, e.g., Mupad doesn't seem to be doing so well commercially,
+and maybe researchers who have written a lot of mupad code aren't so
+happy about this...
> Seventh, if not funding the work directly, isn't it possible to at least
> fund things like an 'Axiom workshop' so that open source developers could
> have their travel and lodging paid for by grants? Facetoface meetings
> would greatly help the development work.
Workshops are a great thing to fund. Particularly good is choosing a specific
research topic and doing the workshop on that. E.g., I think there was
an Axiom Combinatorics workshop last summer, which is good. IPAM (which
is funded by NSF) is hosting a Sage Combinatorics workshop in February,
which they are funding.

Best regards,

 William


+Workshops are a great thing to fund. Particularly good is choosing a
+specific research topic and doing the workshop on that. E.g., I think
+there was an Axiom Combinatorics workshop last summer, which is good.
+IPAM (which is funded by NSF) is hosting a Sage Combinatorics workshop
+in February, which they are funding.
\start
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:49:16 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: William Stein
 (William Stein)
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: list, Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr,
 sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
Subject: Re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
William,
@@ 2455,16 +2181,11 @@ Maple, Axiom, etc) would post their results.
Axiom has groups of such tests in its regression test suite already.
Tim



\start
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:51:08 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr
 on Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:24:35 +0100)
Cc: William Stein, list, David Joyner
+To: Paul Zimmermann
+Cc: William Stein, David Joyner
Subject: Re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
>> Third, even if the NSF funded SAGE, how would those funds benefit the
@@ 2481,18 +2202,11 @@ of testing, I was asking about how the funding of Sage would benefit
projects like Axiom? How might we pay a developer to expand on
symbolic summation code?
Tim



\start
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:53:20 0800
From: "William Stein" William Stein
+From: William Stein
To: Tim Daly
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711182349.lAINnGd23479@localhost.localdomain>
Cc: list, Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr,
 sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
Subject: Re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
On Nov 18, 2007 3:49 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
@@ 2535,26 +2249,17 @@ On Nov 18, 2007 3:49 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
> Maple, Axiom, etc) would post their results.
Actually NIST already has been working on an " Abramowitz & Stegun
style document "
for the last decade. I had a long talk on Friday in my office with the
guy who started that effort a decade ago... It's actually very exciting,
and I do think there is some possibility for something like you're describing
above, maybe more in the context of the CDI initiative at NSF.

William


+style document " for the last decade. I had a long talk on Friday in
+my office with the guy who started that effort a decade ago... It's
+actually very exciting, and I do think there is some possibility for
+something like you're describing above, maybe more in the context of
+the CDI initiative at NSF.
\start
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:24:57 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: William Stein
 (William Stein)
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711182349.lAINnGd23479@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711181453o1d13407al14ddcc15750448d9@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: list, Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr,
 sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann,, David Joyner
Subject: Re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
William,
@@ 2600,15 +2305,10 @@ While I am at CarnegieMellon University, I'm not associated with
any group that does computational mathematics so I couldn't justify
such a proposal.
Tim



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 18:36:39 0600
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: David Parnas on Specifications
from
@@ 2616,7 +2316,7 @@ from
David Parnas (Univ of Limerick) is cited by Dan Weinreb as advocating
He advocates much more precise and specific documentation, kept up
 to date, to the oint where if someone asks a question about the
+ to date, to the point where if someone asks a question about the
software, a programmer would go to the documentation rather than
the code to answer the question. If finally turns out that he wants
extremely precise specs written in a mathematical notation, ...
@@ 2625,20 +2325,12 @@ Since he's clearly singing my song I wanted to record this comment.
I'd like to see Axiom documented to this level. I think it is vitally
important for the long term survival of the system.
Tim



\start
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:15:49 0800
From: Ed Borasky
To: William Stein
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 recognized.
Cc: list, Paul Zimmermann ,
 sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
William Stein wrote:
> On Nov 18, 2007 12:59 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
@@ 2660,6 +2352,7 @@ William Stein wrote:
> hazy at present. There are actually many examples like this already, e.g.,
> Mupad doesn't seem to be doing so well commercially, and maybe
> researchers who have written a lot of mupad code aren't so happy about this...
+
Another one ... Texas Instruments has discontinued Derive. They do have
some kind of replacement, but their marketing seems to be only to the
SATprep and educational institution arena, not professional working
@@ 2674,14 +2367,10 @@ source packages. About all it takes for an opensource package to be
competitive these days is a "native" (nonCygwin) Windows port. But I
don't do the highend PhD research, either.



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:48:59 0600
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071118.01.tpd.patch
fix [Ring, SetCategory] (7011), [Integer,Float] (7010,209)
@@ 2718,12 +2407,8 @@ index b1066aa..af6ead2 100644
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:35:40 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: Ed Borasky
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4740E3C5.7070703@cesmail.net>
Cc: sagedevel@googlegroups.com, Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, William Stein,
 list, David Joyner
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, William Stein, David Joyner
I had an offline discussion with management at Texas Instruments
about Derive. I'm concerned that this historically interesting
@@ 2751,16 +2436,10 @@ It looks like we've lost another great CAS to the corporate blackhole.
A similar fate for Mathematica or Maple will leave a huge hole in
computational mathematics worldwide.
Tim



\start
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 02:58:52 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: rcunnin2@hotmail.com
 Cunningham on Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:48:54 0500)
Cc: list
+To: Casey Cunningham
Subject: Re:
> I recently installed fedora 6 and was looking to install AXIOM, to use
@@ 2778,17 +2457,11 @@ Note that these are the silver (latest changes) versions.
The upload is rather slow so give it an hour or so (It is now 2am EST).
Tim



\start
From: Paul Zimmermann
To: Tim Daly
 (Tim Daly)
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:24:35 +0100
 recognized.
Cc: William Stein, list, David Joyner
+From: Paul Zimmermann
+To: Tim Daly
+Cc: William Stein, David Joyner
Subject: Re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
Dear Tim,
@@ 2802,15 +2475,10 @@ tremendous work in porting, testing, reporting bugs and even patches
to "upstream" developers. This saves a lot of time to the subproject
developers, and helps a lot in improving the quality of those subprojects.
Paul



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:27:29 0600
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: 20071119.01.tpd.patch
This patch adds fedora6, fedora7, and fedora8 stanza.
@@ 3063,13 +2731,10 @@ index 430c68f..8e672f7 100644
20071019 acr src/interp/http.lisp use new return values
20071019 acr src/algebra/axserver.spad use new return values


\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:57:45 0600
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: bug 7016 mathml display of %%var is wrong
Arthur,
@@ 3085,19 +2750,11 @@ but mathml gives:
somebody ate the %%.
Tim



\start
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:43:16 0800
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: Re: bug 7016 mathml display of %%var is wrong
To: Tim Daly
Messageid: <47460604.3090605@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 recognized.
Cc: list
+Subject: Re: bug 7016 mathml display of %%var is wrong
Tim Daly wrote:
> Arthur,
@@ 3112,31 +2769,16 @@ Tim Daly wrote:
> var +1
>
> somebody ate the %%.
>
> Tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Axiomdeveloper mailing list
> list
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiomdeveloper
>
>
+
Tim,
Keep 'em coming. I'm hoping I'll have time to do a revision of the
mathml package when I'm on vacation in a couple of weeks.
Arthur



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 23:41:45 0600
To: Alfredo Portes,
 Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Alfredo Portes, Arthur Ralfs
Subject: newhyper.pamphlet
Another version is checked in. It features:
@@ 3146,15 +2788,10 @@ Another version is checked in. It features:
(This is a new section. I'm taking the MIT course online
and working my course notes up into topics pages)
Tim



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 15:32:53 0600
+From: Tim Daly
To: list
Cc:
Subject: November 2007 release
Summary: November 2007 release
@@ 3635,16 +3272,11 @@ ADD )HELP FACILITY
20070827 tpd src/algebra/fr.spad add Factored.help (FR)
20070827 tpd src/algebra/fr.spad add Factored.input



\start
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 00:53:12 0800
From: Ed Borasky
To: Tim Daly
Subject: Re: November 2007 release
 longer?) in the cache.
Cc: list
+Subject: Re: November 2007 release
Tim Daly wrote:
> Summary: November 2007 release
@@ 3679,14 +3311,10 @@ Tim Daly wrote:
Are there source tarballs of the Golden source?



\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:58:54 0600
+From: Tim Daly
To: Ed Borasky
Cc: list
Subject: November 2007 source tarball
Follow the src link at
@@ 3698,17 +3326,11 @@ These will be moved and maintained in the future at
as soon as the new website details get settled.
Tim


\start
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:58:16 0500
From: Bill Page
To: list,
 AxiomMail ,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net, fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
Cc: sagedevel@googlegroups.com
Subject: Axiom Wiki and Axiom Portal
Dear Axiom Fans,
@@ 3770,18 +3392,11 @@ transfer to the new site, please register at the new site:
and if necessary ask me for help in transferring the content.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 25 Nov 2007 08:19:09 +0100
Cc: list,
 openaxiomdevel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Axiom Wiki and Axiom Portal
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Axiom Wiki and Axiom Portal
Bill Page writes:
@@ 3799,35 +3414,20 @@ Bill, you are a hero!
I never used it that one.
Martin




\start
From: Tim Daly
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 01:26:26 0600
To: Arthur Ralfs" Arthur Ralfs,
 Alfredo Portes
Cc: list
+From: Tim Daly
+To: Arthur Ralfs, Alfredo Portes
Subject: newhyper.pamphlet
I finished the specific polynomial types which completes the
topics>polynomial pages. I also added the complete glossary.
It is checked in.
Tim



\start
To: axiomdevel ,
 fricasdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 aldorl
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 25 Nov 2007 11:28:11 +0100
Cc:
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
Subject: Bug in parallel iteration
Dear all,
@@ 3883,19 +3483,11 @@ Any hope? I.e., what I want is:
* apply suchthat clauses to all iterators that come before, and are in the
same group
Martin




\start
+Date: 25 Nov 2007 09:41:56 0600
+From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: Martin Rubey
Subject: Re: Bug in parallel iteration
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
Date: 25 Nov 2007 09:41:56 0600
Cc: axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 fricasdevel , aldorl
Martin Rubey writes:
@@ 3920,19 +3512,11 @@ You may want to lobby for changing a documented behaviour (thus
breaking codes written with that specification in mind), but I'm not
sure calling it bug is an effective way to achieve that goal.
 Gaby



\start
+Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:41:19 0500
From: William Sit
+To: Martin Rubey
Subject: Re: Bug in parallel iteration
To: Martin Rubey,axiomdevel
 , fricasdevel
 , openaxiomdevel
 , aldorl
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:41:19 0500
Cc:
Dear Martin:
@@ 4026,33 +3610,13 @@ On 25 Nov 2007 11:28:11 +0100
>* apply suchthat clauses to all iterators that come
>before, and are in the
> same group
>
>Martin
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Axiomdeveloper mailing list
>list
>http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiomdeveloper

William Sit,
Professor of Mathematics, City College of New York

Office: R6/202C Tel: 2126505179, Fax: 2128620004
Home Page: http://scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu/~wyscc/


\start
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:14:19 0500
From: Cliff Yapp
To: William Stein
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: list, Paul Zimmermann ,
 sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
>> Third, even if the NSF funded SAGE, how would those funds benefit the
>> various subprojects like Axiom? Open source is mostly volunteer work
@@ 4078,20 +3642,12 @@ guaranteed to be open.
Is this something someone could set up with any hope of success?
CY



\start
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:58:05 0800
From: "William Stein" William Stein
+From: William Stein
To: Cliff Yapp
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
Cc: list, Paul Zimmermann ,
 sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
On Nov 25, 2007 2:14 PM, Cliff Yapp wrote:
> >> Third, even if the NSF funded SAGE, how would those funds benefit the
@@ 4128,24 +3684,12 @@ example, which
should not be ignored:
http://magma.maths.usyd.edu.au/magma/
William

  William



\start
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:54:03 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: William Stein
 (William Stein)
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner,
 list
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
>> >> Third, even if the NSF funded SAGE, how would those funds benefit the
>> >> various subprojects like Axiom? Open source is mostly volunteer work
@@ 4221,29 +3765,16 @@ Considering both sides, it seems that disruptive funding is the
greater danger to the long term survival. In the long run, it's not
the funding that matters. It's the work.

Tim


What would you do if you were not paid to do it?
That's what you are.  Tim Daly




\start
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 19:49:50 0800
From: "William Stein" William Stein
+From: William Stein
To: Tim Daly
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
Cc: list, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner,
 Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: David Joyner, Paul Zimmermann
On Nov 25, 2007 7:54 PM, Tim Daly wrote:
> >> >> Third, even if the NSF funded SAGE, how would those funds benefit the
@@ 4355,25 +3886,14 @@ getting a lot of "funding" in some sense.
Just out of curiosity does Axiom always have a 30 year horizon, or does
it become a 20 year horizon at some point?
William



\start
To: "William Stein" William Stein
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
Date: 25 Nov 2007 23:18:53 0600
Cc: list, Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr,
 sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner
+From: Gabriel Dos Reis
+To: William Stein
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
"William Stein" William Stein writes:
+William Stein writes:
[...]
@@ 4382,24 +3902,12 @@ Cc: list, Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr,
I think it always has 30 years horizon  the horizon doesn't move ;)
 Gaby



\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 03:20:30 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: William Stein
 (William Stein)
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner,
 list
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
> >> >> Third, even if the NSF funded SAGE, how would those funds benefit the
...[snip]...
@@ 4639,26 +4147,12 @@ So "The 30 year horizon" is a sort of Zeno's game. You may get half
way there but you'll never actually get all the way there. I intended
the slogan to inspire, not limit.
Tim





\start
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:45:02 0800
From: "William Stein" William Stein
+From: William Stein
To: Tim Daly
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
Cc: list, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner,
 Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: David Joyner, Paul Zimmermann
On Nov 26, 2007 12:20 AM, Tim Daly wrote:
> > >> >> Third, even if the NSF funded SAGE, how would those funds benefit the
@@ 4846,20 +4340,12 @@ counterbalance
to my whole approach to mathematical software since I'm primarily
interested in "shortterm thinking (e.g. competition with commercial software)".
  William



\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:10:28 0800
From: Ed Borasky
To: William Stein
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source
 Mathematical Software
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 recognized.
Cc: list, Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr,
 sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
William Stein wrote:
> Well I'm trying to directly compete with heavily financed commercial
@@ 4897,17 +4383,12 @@ Explorer, or the Linux desktop with the Windows desktop in the context
of a corporate workstation. But again, I'm guessing that people who can
costjustify Mathematica or Maple will keep them in business and "winning."


\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:33:10 0500
From: Doug Stewart
To: Ed Borasky
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open
 Source Mathematical Software
 <474AE1E4.6060101@cesmail.net>
Cc: William Stein, list,
 Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: William Stein, Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
Ed Borasky wrote:
> William Stein wrote:
@@ 4933,24 +4414,12 @@ sufficient quality or maturity to be used on a Windows desktop"
I won't use anything else!
Doug Stewart


\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:01:33 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: William Stein, Ed Borasky
 (William Stein)
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner,
 list
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
==> Tim Daly writes
>> I believe that if such a system were available now there would be
@@ 5132,28 +4601,10 @@ works for them and against you. My strategy makes the 3Ms useless toys.
Raise your eyes to the 30 year horizon.
Choose a winning strategy. Follow it.
Tim




\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 09:12:49 0800
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
Cc: list
Messageid: <474AFE91.40002@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <474AE1E4.6060101@cesmail.net>
 recognized.
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
Ed Borasky wrote:
>
@@ 5169,25 +4620,11 @@ Ed Borasky wrote:
Do you mean to say that you think IE is better than Firefox? Hard to
imagine.
Arthur Ralfs



\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:53:25 0500
From: Bill Page
To: Ed Borasky
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <474AE1E4.6060101@cesmail.net>
Cc: list, sagedevel@googlegroups.com
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
On 11/26/07, Ed Borasky wrote:
> ...
@@ 5206,27 +4643,12 @@ both Microsoft products and FireFox and OpenOffice on Windows in a
production work environment I consider OpenOffice and FireFox very
clearly superior to what Microsoft produces.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:14:47 0800
From: "William Stein" William Stein
+From: William Stein
To: Tim Daly
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
Cc: Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, sagedevel@googlegroups.com,
 list, David Joyner, Dennis Stein
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner, Dennis Stein
On Nov 26, 2007 10:01 AM, Tim Daly wrote:
> ==> Ed Borasky writes:
@@ 5246,9 +4668,8 @@ On Nov 26, 2007 10:01 AM, Tim Daly wrote:
> >costjustify Mathematica or Maple will keep them in business and "winning."
Mathematical software is indeed difficult to write. You're right 
what I hope to
accomplish with the Sage project is impossible. I don't care; I'm going to do
it anyways.
+what I hope to accomplish with the Sage project is impossible. I
+don't care; I'm going to do it anyways.
> Clearly you've not studied your "Art of War" by Sun Tsu. :)
@@ 5296,9 +4717,8 @@ than yours.
> the 3Ms from becoming useable with the Sage front end?
Nothing. In fact, one of the main features of the Sage front end
already is that it
can be used with the 4Ms (don't dismiss Magma, which belongs in
there  it's very good quality commercial software).
+already is that it can be used with the 4Ms (don't dismiss Magma,
+which belongs in there  it's very good quality commercial software).
> How hard would
> it be for them to define "plugins" that either use the MMA workbook
@@ 5314,8 +4734,8 @@ Yes.
> Thus they gut your whole system.
No they don't. Sage is GPL'd. Any improvements or changes they make to Sage
must be given back.
+No they don't. Sage is GPL'd. Any improvements or changes they make
+to Sage must be given back.
> They can make the claim that they "work with Sage" which allows them
> to sell licenses to locations where you've "won". That's not strategic
@@ 5323,18 +4743,14 @@ must be given back.
> I don't know why you've chosen to benefit the enemy
> but I can't prevent it.
True, you can't. But honestly I really don't see the 4M's as the
enemy. They are four high quality
valuable tools for mathematical computation. I love mathematics and
doing computation
in the context of mathematics, and at some level I really like using
any mathematical
+True, you can't. But honestly I really don't see the 4M's as the
+enemy. They are four high quality valuable tools for mathematical
+computation. I love mathematics and doing computation in the context
+of mathematics, and at some level I really like using any mathematical
software. With Sage I want to provide a viable free open source
alternative, not put the
4M's out of business. Software is not a zero sum game. Especially
in research that
relies on computation  trying to find the right conjecture  it can
be quite valuable to compare
+alternative, not put the 4M's out of business. Software is not a zero
+sum game. Especially in research that relies on computation  trying
+to find the right conjecture  it can be quite valuable to compare
output produced by several different programs.
> I also would like to replace these commercial systems with open
@@ 5399,33 +4815,24 @@ other options they will have available. In fact, I think it highly unlikely.
> matter what strategy is used. But the strategy you've chosen actually
> works for them and against you. My strategy makes the 3Ms useless toys.
You're right, the strategy I'm using may benefit the 4M's. That doesn't
bother me at all, since my first allegiance is to mathematics and mathematical
research, and I think having more options and more support for mathematical
software tools is a plus for mathematics, even if some of them are commercial.
I'm just going to try to make sure at least one of the tools is
simultaneous open
and free, and can do what everyday people need. For way too long
it's been an embarrassment to "pure" mathematics that we don't have such
software yet. Also, it is bad for mathematics that it is difficult
for the 4M's
plus other systems like Axiom to work together  one of the three main goals
for Sage is to make such cooperation much easier, because that benefits
mathematics as a whole.

  William


+You're right, the strategy I'm using may benefit the 4M's. That
+doesn't bother me at all, since my first allegiance is to mathematics
+and mathematical research, and I think having more options and more
+support for mathematical software tools is a plus for mathematics,
+even if some of them are commercial. I'm just going to try to make
+sure at least one of the tools is simultaneous open and free, and can
+do what everyday people need. For way too long it's been an
+embarrassment to "pure" mathematics that we don't have such software
+yet. Also, it is bad for mathematics that it is difficult for the
+4M's plus other systems like Axiom to work together  one of the
+three main goals for Sage is to make such cooperation much easier,
+because that benefits mathematics as a whole.
\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:24:27 0800
From: Ed Borasky
To: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open
 Source Mathematical Software
 <474AFE91.40002@shaw.ca>
 recognized.
Cc: list
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
Arthur Ralfs wrote:
> Ed Borasky wrote:
@@ 5440,15 +4847,6 @@ Arthur Ralfs wrote:
>>
> Do you mean to say that you think IE is better than Firefox? Hard to
> imagine.
>
> Arthur Ralfs
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Axiomdeveloper mailing list
> list
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiomdeveloper
>
I'm saying:
@@ 5466,26 +4864,12 @@ IE, it would still face an uphill battle in this arena.
Are you saying that OpenOffice is "better" than Microsoft Office on any
dimension other than price? :)


\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:38:47 0800
From: Ed Borasky
To: William Stein
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711261214h3a53a4c4od9cee5b382ee55e4@mail.gmail.com>
 recognized.
Cc: Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner,
 list, Dennis Stein
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner, Dennis Stein
William Stein wrote:
@@ 5510,25 +4894,11 @@ people call it, "reproducible research". The point, however, is that a
reproducible research "compendium" or literate program has to be
readable and understood by the people who pay the bills.




\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:49:30 0500
From: Bill Page
To: Ed Borasky
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <474AE1E4.6060101@cesmail.net> <474AFE91.40002@shaw.ca>
 <474B2B7B.70100@cesmail.net>
Cc: list
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
On 11/26/07, Ed Borasky Ed Borasky wrote:
>
@@ 5563,30 +4933,12 @@ Yes. In our office we often use OpenOffice/StarOffice just to
possible I encourage people to use OpenOffice but most users are very
very conservative and will only use what they think they already know.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:25:01 0800
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
To: Ed Borasky
Messageid: <474B39AD.3080709@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <474AE1E4.6060101@cesmail.net> <474AFE91.40002@shaw.ca>
 <474B2B7B.70100@cesmail.net>
 recognized.
Cc: list
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+
Ed Borasky wrote:
> Arthur Ralfs wrote:
@@ 5602,15 +4954,7 @@ Ed Borasky wrote:
>>>
>> Do you mean to say that you think IE is better than Firefox? Hard to
>> imagine.
>>
>> Arthur Ralfs
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Axiomdeveloper mailing list
>> list
>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiomdeveloper
>>
+
>
> I'm saying:
>
@@ 5631,28 +4975,11 @@ Ed Borasky wrote:
No. About the only time I use OpenOffice is to open an MS Office
document that somebody sends me.
Arthur



\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:55:50 0800
From: Arthur Ralfs
Subject: content mathml was re: AMS Notices: Open Source
 Mathematical Software
To: Tim Daly
Messageid: <474B40E6.4010309@shaw.ca>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 recognized.
Cc: list
+Subject: content mathml was re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
root wrote:
> You let the enemy use your own strength against you. The Axiom front
@@ 5673,28 +5000,12 @@ because of discussions I've seen here. However I have also wondered
you've added a new (for me) slant. Do you think content mathml would
amount to a Trojan horse?
Arthur



\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:21:49 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: William Stein
 (William Stein)
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711261214h3a53a4c4od9cee5b382ee55e4@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, sagedevel@googlegroups.com,
 list, David Joyner, dsteinsd@gmail.com
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner, Dennis Stein
...[snip]...
> True, you can't. But honestly I really don't see the 4M's as the
@@ 5721,9 +5032,6 @@ Either choice is fine. We're clearly not competing and I'll do
everything I can to help Sage along. In fact, I'd really like it
if Sage tried to become literate.



>No they don't. Sage is GPL'd. Any improvements or changes they make
>to Sage must be given back.
@@ 5739,11 +5047,6 @@ becomes another "prospect" for the nMs.
In fact, come to think of it, this might make a useful argument to
try to get corporate funding :) "We're your best sales tool!"





>Whether or not a system can compete is determined by what actual real
>people really want and can afford when teaching or doing research.
@@ 5757,12 +5060,10 @@ with commercial software". Which shows that they don't understand
that Axiom is NOT trying to compete; and that funding competition
to commercial software implies funding BOTH sides of the effort.



>It's not at all clear to me that actual research mathematicians, teachers
>and engineers want what you're describing above more than the
>other options they will have available. In fact, I think it highly unlikely.
+>It's not at all clear to me that actual research mathematicians,
+>teachers and engineers want what you're describing above more than
+>the other options they will have available. In fact, I think it
+>highly unlikely.
In the long term (think next century) does it benefit computational
mathematics if the fundamental algorithms are "black box"? It may
@@ 5782,8 +5083,6 @@ practice still existed today? Well, I ask how far computational
mathematics will develop if we continue the same practice. Define
the practice as outside your interest and ignore those who do it.


Anyway, this is all "angels on pinheads" debate.
The chances of funding Axiom are exactly equal to the chances of me
@@ 5792,28 +5091,11 @@ winning the lottery. I play the numbers 3 14 15 92 65 35 religiously :)
I did appreciate your publication though. Hopefully someone will read
it and show up with funding for Sage.
Tim




\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:36:56 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: Arthur Ralfs
 Nov 2007 13:55:50 0800)
Subject: Re: content mathml was re: AMS Notices: Open
 Source Mathematical Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <474B40E6.4010309@shaw.ca>
Cc: list
+Subject: Re: content mathml was re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
>root wrote:
>> You let the enemy use your own strength against you. The Axiom front
@@ 5861,66 +5143,34 @@ more easily do that in Axiom by writing out the lisp data structures.
Mike Dewar has done a lot of work in this area and might have more
well thought out opinions.
Tim




\start
To: "William Stein" William Stein
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711261214h3a53a4c4od9cee5b382ee55e4@mail.gmail.com>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
Date: 26 Nov 2007 18:15:50 0600
Cc: sagedevel@googlegroups.com, Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr,
 list, David Joyner, Dennis Stein
+From: Gabriel Dos Reis
+To: William Stein
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner, Dennis Stein
"William Stein" William Stein writes:
+William Stein writes:
[...]
 You're right, the strategy I'm using may benefit the 4M's. That doesn't
 bother me at all, since my first allegiance is to mathematics and mathematical
 research, and I think having more options and more support for mathematical
 software tools is a plus for mathematics, even if some of them are commercial.
+ You're right, the strategy I'm using may benefit the 4M's. That
+ doesn't bother me at all, since my first allegiance is to
+ mathematics and mathematical research, and I think having more
+ options and more support for mathematical software tools is a plus
+ for mathematics, even if some of them are commercial.
Hear! Hear! Hear!
If the plan I'm flying is built based on simulations with commercial
mathematical software tools, I surely want them to be the best.
 Gaby



\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:06:35 0800
From: Ed Borasky
To: Tim Daly
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711261214h3a53a4c4od9cee5b382ee55e4@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711262321.lAQNLn603680@localhost.localdomain>
 recognized.
Cc: Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, William Stein,
 list, David Joyner, dsteinsd@gmail.com
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, William Stein, David Joyner, Dennis Stein
root wrote:
> The NSF, INRIA, and others cover it.
@@ 5968,28 +5218,12 @@ computational complexity odds were heavily stacked against one.
I think I've made the case that they would get reinvented.



\start
To: Ed Borasky
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711261214h3a53a4c4od9cee5b382ee55e4@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711262321.lAQNLn603680@localhost.localdomain>
 <474B97CB.8030503@cesmail.net>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
Date: 26 Nov 2007 23:01:56 0600
Cc: sagedevel@googlegroups.com, Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, William Stein,
 list, David Joyner, dsteinsd@gmail.com
+From: Gabriel Dos Reis
+To: Ed Borasky
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, William Stein, David Joyner, Dennis Stein
Ed Borasky writes:
@@ 6008,27 +5242,12 @@ Indeed. There is an inherent complexity issue. So what people do is
to optimize for certain classes of systems. So, I don't know what
"really fast Groebner basis algorithm" could possibly mean.
 Gaby



\start
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:53:37 0800
From: "William Stein" William Stein
+From: William Stein
To: Ed Borasky
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711261214h3a53a4c4od9cee5b382ee55e4@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711262321.lAQNLn603680@localhost.localdomain>
 <474B97CB.8030503@cesmail.net>
Cc: Paul.Zimmermann@loria.fr, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, David Joyner,
 list
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Paul Zimmermann, David Joyner
On Nov 26, 2007 8:06 PM, Ed Borasky Ed Borasky wrote:
> root wrote:
@@ 6108,31 +5327,11 @@ The F4 in Magma is really incredibly fast at many standard benchmark
problems. See the timings here:
http://magma.maths.usyd.edu.au/users/allan/gb/
William



\start
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:47:20 +0100
From: Michel Lavaud
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
To: Gabriel Dos Reis, list
Messageid: <474BF5B8.9040506@cegetel.net>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711261214h3a53a4c4od9cee5b382ee55e4@mail.gmail.com>
 <87r6iczgp5.fsf@soliton.cs.tamu.edu>
 Gecko/20070728 Thunderbird/2.0.0.6 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0
Cc:

+From: Michel Lavaud
+To: Gabriel Dos Reis
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
> If the plane I'm flying is built based on simulations with commercial
> mathematical software tools, I surely want them to be the best.
@@ 6253,22 +5452,12 @@ study them  and in particular make software  in their own way. And
their own way for software is Open Source as explained above, except if
one prefers to jump backward 200 years..
Best wishes,
Michel




\start
From: Paul Zimmermann
To: Tim Daly
 root on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:01:33 0500)
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 21:47:44 +0100
 recognized.
Cc: William Stein, sagedevel@googlegroups.com, list,
 David Joyner
+From: Paul Zimmermann
+To: Tim Daly
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: William Stein, David Joyner
Dear Tim,
@@ 6280,33 +5469,16 @@ then how do you explain that both Mathematica, Maple and Magma use the
GNU MP library? Clearly the idea/time/money are not enough, even for
companies of 1000+ people, to compete with ***one*** specialist of his field.
Paul Zimmermann



\start
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:33:31 +0100
From: "Bertfried Fauser"
To: Ed Borasky, list
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <474AE1E4.6060101@cesmail.net> <474AFE91.40002@shaw.ca>
 <474B2B7B.70100@cesmail.net>
Cc:
+From: Bertfried Fauser
+To: Ed Borasky
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
Hi,
is this kindergarden? or do we talk Axiom issues here? lol...
Ciao
BF.

On Nov 26, 2007 9:24 PM, Ed Borasky Ed Borasky wrote:
> Arthur Ralfs wrote:
> > Ed Borasky wrote:
@@ 6321,15 +5493,6 @@ On Nov 26, 2007 9:24 PM, Ed Borasky Ed Borasky wrote:
> >>
> > Do you mean to say that you think IE is better than Firefox? Hard to
> > imagine.
> >
> > Arthur Ralfs
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Axiomdeveloper mailing list
> > list
> > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiomdeveloper
> >
>
> I'm saying:
>
@@ 6346,31 +5509,11 @@ On Nov 26, 2007 9:24 PM, Ed Borasky Ed Borasky wrote:
>
> Are you saying that OpenOffice is "better" than Microsoft Office on any
> dimension other than price? :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Axiomdeveloper mailing list
> list
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiomdeveloper
>




% PD Dr Bertfried Fauser
% Privat Docent: University of Konstanz, Physics Dept

% contact > URL : http://clifford.physik.unikonstanz.de/~fauser/
% Phone : +49 7531 693491


\start
To: Bill Page, axiomdevel ,
 fricasdevel , openaxiomdevel@lists.s
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 27 Nov 2007 14:40:49 +0100
Cc:
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: Bill Page
Subject: revert won't work, preview missing
Dear Bill!
@@ 6382,19 +5525,10 @@ Two problems with the new wiki:
* I cannot revert an edit (Site Error occurred). Do I have to register to do
so? (might make sense)
Martin






\start
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 10:16:23 0500
From: Bill Page
To: Martin Rubey
Cc: axiomdevel , openaxiomdevel@lists.s,
 fricasdevel
Subject: Re: revert won't work, preview missing
Martin,
@@ 6477,20 +5611,12 @@ malicious changes) is very important. You should not hesitate to use
this function if you think an improper change has been made to a page
or in the case of a simple error.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:24:09 0800
From: Ed Borasky
To: Michel Lavaud
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source
 Mathematical Software
 <474BF5B8.9040506@cegetel.net>
 recognized.
Cc: list, Gabriel Dos Reis
+To: Michel Lavaud
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
+Cc: Gabriel Dos Reis
Michel Lavaud wrote:
>
@@ 6527,26 +5653,11 @@ computers were available outside of the military when the Comet was
designed, and they would have been on the scale of a Von Neumann/IAS
machine, or maybe an IBM 704, if they were.



\start
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:44:58 0600 (CST)
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: Michel Lavaud
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711261214h3a53a4c4od9cee5b382ee55e4@mail.gmail.com>
 <87r6iczgp5.fsf@soliton.cs.tamu.edu> <474BF5B8.9040506@cegetel.net>
Cc: list
+To: Michel Lavaud
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Michel Lavaud wrote:
@@ 6596,135 +5707,70 @@ funded by NSF  but maybe I'm not reading the same thread as you.
http://www.sagemath.org/
 Gaby



\start
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 20:00:30 +0100
From: Michel Lavaud
Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical
 Software
To: Ed Borasky, list
Messageid: <474C694E.6030806@cegetel.net>
MIMEversion: 1.0
 <85e81ba30711181332r5d4b82desef87abdabfeedf5b@mail.gmail.com>
 <4749F3BB.1080408@yahoo.com>
 <85e81ba30711251658k7735ed0dl111069ad4532cc61@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260354.lAQ3s3902943@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711251949y1d803ea7wcc401cef939fe05d@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711260820.lAQ8KUh03040@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711252345r1041dba2yf7b4ca716e27c15f@mail.gmail.com>
 <200711261801.lAQI1X203517@localhost.localdomain>
 <85e81ba30711261214h3a53a4c4od9cee5b382ee55e4@mail.gmail.com>
 <87r6iczgp5.fsf@soliton.cs.tamu.edu> <474BF5B8.9040506@cegetel.net>
 <474C3699.5090500@cesmail.net>
 Gecko/20070728 Thunderbird/2.0.0.6 Mnenhy/0.7.5.0
Cc:
+From: Michel Lavaud
+To: Ed Borasky
+Subject: re: AMS Notices: Open Source Mathematical Software
Ed Borasky a =E9crit :
>> If the plane I'm flying is built based on simulations with commerc=
ial=20
>> mathematical software tools, whose accuracy is guaranteed in the=
=20
>> usual way, i.e. no guarantee at all except refund for the price of=
=20
>> the software whatever consequences and it is forbidden to get the=
=20
>> source code to check if it is correct  then I will for sure take=
=20
>> the next plane, if it has been built with free Open Source softwar=
e :)
>
+
+>> If the plane I'm flying is built based on simulations with commercial
+>> mathematical software tools, whose accuracy is guaranteed in the
+>> usual way, i.e. no guarantee at all except refund for the price of
+>> the software whatever consequences and it is forbidden to get the
+>> source code to check if it is correct  then I will for sure take
+>> the next plane, if it has been built with free Open Source software :)
+
> [snip]
>
> I've heard this argument before  it's fallacious on a number of=
=20
+> I've heard this argument before  it's fallacious on a number of
> levels, and I don't have time to dig into it right now.
Ah dear, you win, I confess I am unable to refute your argument. So,=
=20
after closed source programs, we have now closed source arguments! Ve=
ry=20
+Ah dear, you win, I confess I am unable to refute your argument. So,
+after closed source programs, we have now closed source arguments! Very
clever. Can I buy a licence ? (Ok, just a joke:))
> But I want to remind people that: 1. Aircraft used to be designed w=
ith=20
> slide rules and mechanical desk calculators. The equations involved=
=20
> are "open source" in the sense that everyone who is a professional=
=20
> aeronautical engineer learns them in college, knows them intimately=
.=20
> What today's computers allow us to do is build larger and more comp=
lex=20
+> But I want to remind people that: 1. Aircraft used to be designed with
+> slide rules and mechanical desk calculators. The equations involved
+> are "open source" in the sense that everyone who is a professional
+> aeronautical engineer learns them in college, knows them intimately.
+> What today's computers allow us to do is build larger and more complex
> aviation systems that are more economical on fuel.
>
Yes of course, I don't deny the usefulness of computers for aviation.=
 As=20
for "open source" equations : we inherited the old traditional=20
scientific way of not selling knowledge. In the new framework of=20
socalled "economy of knowledge" (which is, in my opinion, an oxymoro=
n,=20
but that's another story), that promote to put property rights on=
=20
knowledge, this will not be the case any more. That's one of my point=
s :=20
the trend (i.e. the derivative) is that the situation will go worse,=
=20
i.e. less and less "open source" equations, if we scientists do not s=
top=20
this trend by realizing that selling scientific software and more=
=20
generally selling knowledge is "tuer la poule aux oeufs d'or" (don't=
=20
+Yes of course, I don't deny the usefulness of computers for aviation. As
+for "open source" equations : we inherited the old traditional
+scientific way of not selling knowledge. In the new framework of
+socalled "economy of knowledge" (which is, in my opinion, an oxymoron,
+but that's another story), that promote to put property rights on
+knowledge, this will not be the case any more. That's one of my points :
+the trend (i.e. the derivative) is that the situation will go worse,
+i.e. less and less "open source" equations, if we scientists do not stop
+this trend by realizing that selling scientific software and more
+generally selling knowledge is "tuer la poule aux oeufs d'or" (don't
know in English : "kill the hen with golden eggs"?)
>
> 2. Very few aircraft crashes are caused by design flaws of any kind=
,=20
> and even fewer by incorrect software. Human error at the time of th=
e=20
> flight and sabotage/terrorism/military actions are the two main cau=
ses=20
> of aircraft crashes. The only really blatant example of a design fl=
aw=20
> causing aircraft crashes I can remember was the DeHavilland Comet.=
=20
> That was not a software flaw as far as I know  I'm not even sure=
=20
> scientific computers were available outside of the military when th=
e=20
> Comet was designed, and they would have been on the scale of a Von=
=20
+> 2. Very few aircraft crashes are caused by design flaws of any kind,
+> and even fewer by incorrect software. Human error at the time of the
+> flight and sabotage/terrorism/military actions are the two main causes
+> of aircraft crashes. The only really blatant example of a design flaw
+> causing aircraft crashes I can remember was the DeHavilland Comet.
+> That was not a software flaw as far as I know  I'm not even sure
+> scientific computers were available outside of the military when the
+> Comet was designed, and they would have been on the scale of a Von
> Neumann/IAS machine, or maybe an IBM 704, if they were.
Yes, OK : in the times when computers were inexistant, I agree it is=
=20
highly improbable that plane crashes were caused by sofware errors :=
)=20
However, in the times when they existed and were used, I would bet th=
at=20
most numerical computations for planes were made in Fortran, and Fort=
ran=20
is the exception :that confirms the rule : there are many free librar=
ies=20
of subroutines in this language, and some (if not all ?) commercial=
=20
libraries of subroutines are sold with the source code. But maybe I'm=
=20
+Yes, OK : in the times when computers were inexistant, I agree it is
+highly improbable that plane crashes were caused by sofware errors :)
+However, in the times when they existed and were used, I would bet that
+most numerical computations for planes were made in Fortran, and Fortran
+is the exception :that confirms the rule : there are many free libraries
+of subroutines in this language, and some (if not all ?) commercial
+libraries of subroutines are sold with the source code. But maybe I'm
wrong ?
Best wishes,






\start
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:12:09 0500
From: Tim Daly
To: chris.arena@gmail.com
 (chris.arena@gmail.com)
Cc: list
+To: Chris Arena
Subject: Re: problem with Axiom pages?
Chris,
@@ 6744,18 +5790,10 @@ Source and binary downloads can be found at:
and don't hesitate to mention these things as I would never know
otherwise.
Tim



\start
To: fricasdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 axiomdevel
 <200711272012.lARKC9E04357@localhost.localdomain>
From: Martin Rubey
Date: 27 Nov 2007 20:26:50 +0100
Cc:
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
Subject: Link to new wiki
Dear maintainers in charge,
@@ 6766,21 +5804,11 @@ I would like to suggest that each one of you places a link to the new wiki home
on his projects homepage. I believe that this would be a win for all of us.
Martin




\start
+Date: 27 Nov 2007 13:55:58 0600
+From: Gabriel Dos Reis
To: Martin Rubey
Subject: Re: Link to new wiki
 <200711272012.lARKC9E04357@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qy7cjjxqd.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis
Date: 27 Nov 2007 13:55:58 0600
Cc: fricasdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 axiomdevel
Martin Rubey writes:
@@ 6795,20 +5823,12 @@ Martin Rubey writes:
That is easily solved: Bill has write priliege to OpenAxiom's web and
other stuff :). OpenAxiom's web files are in the repository.
 Gaby



\start
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:50:55 0500
From: Bill Page
To: Martin Rubey
 <200711272012.lARKC9E04357@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qy7cjjxqd.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
Cc: axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel ,
 fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Link to new wiki
+Cc: list
+Subject: Re: Link to new wiki
On 27 Nov 2007 20:26:50 +0100, Martin Rubey wrote:
>
@@ 6831,21 +5851,11 @@ dash in the axiomwiki part. Sorry, 'newsynthesis' is a fixed name,
but I could add an alias for 'axiomwiki' if you think that would be a
good idea.
Regards,
Bill Page.



\start
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
 <200711272012.lARKC9E04357@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qy7cjjxqd.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>

From: Martin Rubey
Date: 27 Nov 2007 21:04:56 +0100
Cc: axiomdevel ,
 openaxiomdevel
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: Link to new wiki
+From: Martin Rubey
+To: list
+Subject: Re: Re: Link to new wiki
Bill Page writes:
@@ 6864,21 +5874,11 @@ make my suggestions then.
In any case, many many thanks Bill!
Martin




\start
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:57:09 0500
From: Bill Page
To: fricasdevel@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [fricasdevel] Re: Link to new wiki
 <200711272012.lARKC9E04357@localhost.localdomain>
 <9qy7cjjxqd.fsf__@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
 <87ejebtqcx.fsf@soliton.cs.tamu.edu>
Cc: openaxiomdevel